[Bill Ballinger]

I sent all of my test data to Trick Flow but I haven't heard back from them yet. They do not have any dyno info posted on their website yet on these heads. As far as I know I'm the first guy to have dyno results with these new heads. I had the short block ready to go and got one of the first set of heads from TF. I had been waiting for months for the heads to be released so we were ready to jump as soon as they shipped. I'm not a head expert so I can't tell you why these heads work so well but they do. The engine makes power wall to wall. I've sat in the dyno cell testing dozens of engines that underperform. This one overperforms. Could be the head, maybe the intake, maybe the throttle body setup, could be the dyno headers, or the ring pack on the Mahle pistons. I'm not really sure what it is but it rocks.

They are backing up. Ford did a great job with the bowls and ports in the 61-65 heads. BBM brought in a great combustion chamber that with a slight cant on the intake side and a2.19 intake valve. I shaped both sets of my C4AE-G heads with a cant away from the wall on the intake side and a 5/16 guide insert 11/32 ex with 1.66 exhaust and an eyebrow long before BBM did it, wink, I have 2.06 intakes 1.6 ex w hard seats. The intakes are flat and I put a really good valve job on them. 1999 and that .020 over 390 still screams to 7000 with a reasonable cam. My 2nd set with 2.19s got stolen from the machine shop, no explanation, I flowed both at 7 in and factored them. The 394 heads pulled 304. factored to 28. The stolen ones flow 338 factored to 28. Exhaust flows what it will. No noise or backup. Both iron and likely took 15 years off my life. I wish I had them back. The flow line across is very similar to a Cleveland closed chamber not quite as good as a Hemi. I can’t do it anymore, I am almost blind, but I think I could still build a strong FE if I had my heads back. I wish I could just buy a set of CNC BBMs with a canted 2.2 and 1.68 exh. I f anyone finds a set for sale I am buying.

 

[Bill Ballinger]

Sorry Mario,

Edelbrock heads are very similar to the factory Ford heads. The BBM yes have a better combustion chamber. However, both heads have a similar 1960's port architecture.
Big and inefficient.

I guess I am stupid to believe a new port design will not perform better than old school designs. Sorry for my complete ignorance.

It isn’t stupid, Scott Foxwell pushed up an 850 hp FE with some of those obsolete heads. There’s a twist to the wrist that can make them all work if you know where to improve it. Out of the box it seems a little optimistic, but not saying that getting a proper flow line and room for the mixture to speed out for a good burn can’t do it. Magnifying them they will back over .600 unless you can move the head towards the center.

 

[Bill Ballinger]

It isn’t stupid, Scott Foxwell pushed up an 850 hp FE with some of those obsolete heads. There’s a twist to the wrist that can make them all work if you know where to improve it. Out of the box it seems a little optimistic, but not saying that getting a proper flow line and room for the mixture to speed out for a good burn can’t do it. Magnifying them they will back over .600 unless you can move the head towards the center.

The valve head canted away from the bore.

 

[Bill Ballinger]

Not the first time a happy dyno has been used to help sell a new product. No doubt they work well and the builder came up with a heck of a combo.


Not in my world even in my low dollar corner of that world. But it does alright for the money I spent, thanks to a lot of help. Would be interesting to see it compares to my combo in my car. Would it be quicker or slower?????
Mines never been on the dyno but calculators say 650ish in a 2700 lb car.



I also agree, will be a great combo for a lot of people

But Mario your whole combination is what makes it right. I put you Holley Street Dominator on my ported iron heads that are still going strong, no blowby, leaks. and GPS says 503 hp conservatively I did the head, intake and thinner gasket for a.036 quench in 2001. All I did was put a Canton deep square hole with baffles and scraper on with the Canton pickup. The bottom end is clean as new and you could eat a pan of Cheerios in the pan after 20 years. I cheated though, I used two top moly rings on the L2291s with a little more gap on the second. I rips like a 327 Chevy. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

 

[canada1]

Bill, you need to go back to the beginning of this very old thread.
Many were poo-pooing the then new Trick Flow FE heads.
Now most of those unbelievers are using them in most performance builds.
I like the newer TF heads - as well as the BBM heads with a decent combustion chamber.
Pro-port CNC Edelbrocks can be made to make great power as well (on high $$ big cubic inch builds).

 

[cstraub]

Ed Morels FE that he and Rocky campaigned in the Thunderbolt Clone, One Eyed Jack..
Blue Thunder Medium Riser Heads
Dove 4 x 2 Intake manifold

 

[cstraub]

If memory serves me she went a best of 9.80's with 4 speed on a 9" tire. With an auto she went 9.50's on a 9" Tire

 

[Bill Ballinger]

I agree that the TF and BBM heads are exellent , they are the culmination of what we all did to improve the design, and that’s what is inspiring, Mario, Pip Me, and so many others who put their efforts into building a better FE have begat the great blocks, and heads and support parts that are more generic and less expensive to make these engines with costs in the Bow tie arena in class engines, and still have the ability to modify at home to run local brackets. Fun!

 

[BBF612]

Old set of Dove alum. Standard port hi riser heads with just a little clean up and a good valve job made 790 with an old set of headers by Ed on it.

 

[canada1]

Old set of Dove alum. Standard port hi riser heads with just a little clean up and a good valve job made 790 with an old set of headers by Ed on it.

Dove was making FE heads when no one else was. It is so sad to see the Dove bashing that goes on.
Hats off to Jim Dove! First to get into the FE performance market, many moons ago.

 

[scott foxwell]

Dove was making FE heads when no one else was. It is so sad to see the Dove bashing that goes on.
Hats off to Jim Dove! First to get into the FE performance market, many moons ago.

The Dove "bashing" is pretty well justified. He had some good designs but the head castings were horrible. He had some good intakes for the day.
Here's a set of his Glidden high risers I did;

 

[canada1]

The DOVE bashing was far over the top - stop this nonsense. You Scott still use and like the China castings and some of the castings were/are crap also. The DOVE castings were fine for many years - later years the quality control went south, and SOME castings had porosity issues.
Jim Dove is a hero to true FE fans. He did what no one else would do - make cylinder heads (of many configurations) for the FE engine as well a intakes, rocker arms etc........................
What have you made/manufactured for the FE? Ported a few heads - yeah! Good for you. Pat yourself on the back again!

 

[scott foxwell]

The DOVE bashing was far over the top - stop this nonsense. You Scott still use and like the China castings and some of the castings were/are crap also. The DOVE castings were fine for many years - later years the quality control went south, and SOME castings had porosity issues.
Jim Dove is a hero to true FE fans. He did what no one else would do - make cylinder heads (of many configurations) for the FE engine as well a intakes, rocker arms etc........................
What have you made/manufactured for the FE? Ported a few heads - yeah! Good for you. Pat yourself on the back again!

Sorry to burst your little bubble. Last set of his rockers I worked with...there were no two rockers with the same ratio. None were right and they varied from low 1.7's to over 1.8 IN THE SAME SET.
Look, I gave credit where credit was due and trying to discredit me doesn't change the truth.
How many sets of his heads have you had or worked on? I have three sets in my shop right now. I've seen plenty to know better. That's all I have to say.

 

[canada1]

My little bubble? Your bubble is big?
Why are you always so condescending? You belittle almost everyone.
Must be nice to live on your high and mighty pedestal.
You know nothing about me.

 

[n2omike]

Sorry to burst your little bubble. Last set of his rockers I worked with...there were no two rockers with the same ratio. None were right and they varied from low 1.7's to over 1.8 IN THE SAME SET.

Dove rockers use to be LEGIT. I bought several sets back in the 1990's. All very high quality. They had a lifetime warranty, and I ran a set of my car through three different engines for 30 years! You could get great deals on them straight from the source at the big Columbus all Ford Swap Meets. They made rockers for lots of different brands. The Comp Cams aluminum rockers at the time were Dove. I got a good deal on a set that was double stamped with both the Comp Cams and Blue Racer logo. Dove eventually faded from view, but I always liked their rockers back in the day.

I haven't used any of the their FE stuff, but use to drool over it. Use to follow the Ford FE forums, and am aware of the hit/miss nature of their parts quality. However, I do respect the fact that they did bring a lot of cool parts to market. People would have long wait times and sometimes never get their stuff. They would also FINALLY get their parts, only to realize they still needed a lot of work, suffered from porosity, etc.

Here's some stuff out of their old catalog...

 

[Gary Blair]

Dove was making FE heads when no one else was. It is so sad to see the Dove bashing that goes on.
Hats off to Jim Dove! First to get into the FE performance market, many moons ago.

Absolutely true.

 

[canada1]

I can hardly imagine how much effort Jim Dove (and others employed by) was put forth to design, test, and manufacture all of these very different items. Cylinder heads alone is a huge undertaking - just ask Mummert.
Cylinder heads where different combustion chambers, different exhaust port layouts, MR, HR, CJ heads could be ordered....(try that now) Then add many different rocker arms for Ford, GM, Chrysler, AMC, Olds, Pontiac,..... both shaft designs and stud mount....
Not for the faint of heart!
Years ago I had read that someone (employee?) was taking cylinder head castings that had failed Q/A and were in the recycle bin were being sold on ebay.
God bless Jim Dove.
Some here bitch about this and that, never having spent a nickle of their own money to design and manufacture anything.

 

[Gary Blair]

Shame that we no longer have Jim Kuntz innovation. His FE stuff was developed from E'bock Finger Port castings and then CNC finished by a shop in Las Vegas. Bad Ass stuff. Ya need to do your own R&D. Ya can't expect to take an off the shelf casting and do a cartridge roll port job and expect it to be the hot lick. Ya may have to tune the choke area or change to port center line as well.

 

[canada1]

Jim Dove reminds me of the Dodge Big block pioneer (Zeke) Zeeker Performance. Manufactured his own line of aluminum BBD cylinder heads where there was none in the aftermarket. Supposedly some of his aluminum castings had porosity issues as well. That doesn't take away from his fantastic accomplishments.

 

[cstraub]

Jim Dove pioneered performance

Dove was making FE heads when no one else was. It is so sad to see the Dove bashing that goes on.
Hats off to Jim Dove! First to get into the FE performance market, many moons ago.

Jim Dove was a pioneer in this industry. It's people like him that took the chance to do something first, allowing the rest of us to have access to parts for modification to make power. He deserves respect and a thank you.