[scott foxwell]

You might like this one...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BADPTQbOdQI

What size valves were in those heads?

 

[Mario428]

I never said that traditional FE heads Edelbrocks (with porting) or BBM heads would not or do not make decent power numbers.
They certainly do! I love FE's.
The issue I have is the dis-belief on this build. If I can't do it no one can attitude. Why?

Not the first time a happy dyno has been used to help sell a new product. No doubt they work well and the builder came up with a heck of a combo.

"My Edelbrocks have gone 9.17@149 using those big inefficient ports with the awful chambers. Horrible heads.
TFS heads are not that different, still meant to bolt on like very other FE head"

Mario has a very fast car - no question.

Not in my world even in my low dollar corner of that world. But it does alright for the money I spent, thanks to a lot of help. Would be interesting to see it compares to my combo in my car. Would it be quicker or slower?????
Mines never been on the dyno but calculators say 650ish in a 2700 lb car.

Take a look at the short side height and angle - as well as the dreaded (by some) floor wing. It certainly is a significant departure from Edelbrock FE heads available.

And yes the heads alone do not make the build - it is a combination and attention to detail.

Again great job on this FE build!!

I also agree, will be a great combo for a lot of people

 

[Barry_R]

What size valves were in those heads?

Probably too big by modern standards - 2.25 and 1.75 IIRC. 1964 high riser heads don't give you a lot of room to easily reduce sizing - lots of Venturi undercut on the port side of the valve and the factory used a radius formed seat. Couple that with a port that is like three feet tall and an inch wide with a really low floor and everything is wrong by todays mind set. Still made power though...

 

[BBF612]

You might like this one...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BADPTQbOdQI

Sweet, I do like it, you just don't see to many real Hi-riser builds, thanks. Can you give any other details on the build? Mine is mostly done, just need carbs and odds and ends.

 

[Barry_R]

I will need to look up the exacts - - but it was a half filled factory block, a modest solid roller with around .700 lift, a Dove tunnel wedge with a pair of QFT 750s. I recall compression around a dozen, and I know that they were 1964 heads prepared by Joe Craine out of Texas - a gent who helps out with the Ted Eaton EMC crew. I remember it being a bit fussy on the initial runs but started sounding really good as we got a grip on her...

Guys that are Super Stock serious on these heads will add about an inch of brass to fill the bottom of the ports...this one was pretty normal in comparison.

 

[BBF612]

Thanks, can you tune me in on where to start with timing and spark plugs with the dove alum heads?

 

[Barry_R]

Do your Dove heads have the "big" or little plugs? They made them both ways.
As for timing - if it has the OE "boot heel" chamber its gonna want more than most folks would be comfortable running these days.
I have had these things "want" over 40...

 

[BBF612]

Thanks Barry, it has the big plug with the boot heel, the most I've ever ran was 36 (never got the chance to tune) degrees with the flat top pistons, I might start at 36 and work my way up. With the dome piston I figured it might need more. I remember talking with a 428 stocker guy at the action track (1/8th mile) in Terre Haute In. back in the 70's and he said that he left with 44 degrees and when he got in 4th gear he would drop it back to 38 degrees, he had some type of vacuum canister hooked up. Thanks again.

 

[Barry_R]

Back when I was running a 428CJ I used to leave with about 42 or 44 and had a micro switch on the shifter to pull 4 degrees out in high gear. Car would pick up a MPH or two that way but it never helped ET much. MPH was good to have bracket racing.

 

[Bill Ballinger]

All I can say, since I was banned from the FE Forum is that the FE is a strong engine that can overachieve, The factory racing offerings are very close to what modern heads can achieve. Mario 428 and BarryR along myself know that the engine fathered by the Edsel had hit its stride by the end of the 1960s and are currently barely surpassed by aftermarket offerings. As aluminum is becoming increasingly hard to come by, we really need to cast these heads in iron. The major weight difference is the intake anyway. Iron Highrisers with better chambers for stroker engine like a 454 4.125x 4.25 FE, etc, iron heads won’t hurt them at all.,TFS sin iron? Hell yes! Why not?

 

[Bill Ballinger]

I built these engines for 40 years, I am legally blind surrendering my license. I still have a 394 ci FE that does very well with ported C4AE-G heads and Mario’s Holley SD and it wails like a banshee that is on fire and is 30 years old. The solid cam formula Ford should have built. I see no reason why we can’t cast iron versions with factory and modern features, the best of both. And the comment that the FE Forum eats their own is quite true. I’m banned for a few reasons, but primarily because my 310 cfm CAAE-G heads have disappeared from the machine shop, and when I inquired for information regarding their disappearance, I was banned for being a disruption. I was, but many disruptions were based upon the failure to want to move forward as it might threaten the market for factory heads. And I did discuss matters with the prime movers if needed improvement on BBM heads to make them excellent for small bore strokers. These combined with an over aggressive vendor/builder got me banned for life. I can be reached at billballinger1@icloud.com. Btw, the C4 heads that disappeared, I had paid in full for.

 

[SuperStock427]

If you are using that peanut shape cc, 38 will be as much as you will need in timing I have never seen an FE run more than 40 degrees, in class racing

 

[Gary Blair]

That aftermarket Tunnel Wedge looks to have smaller runners than a Ford TW. Perhaps it is the camera angle?

 

[scott foxwell]

This was out of the box Trick Flow's, 496 ci, pump gas, hyd roller lobes with solid lifters, Holley efi. This was a pretty comprehensive build with a lot of attention to detail. I'm not sure I see the tunnel wedge and (2) throttle bodys making 30moreHP but I guess it's possible.

 

[canada1]

I could easily see 30+ HP more with a solid roller lobe profile VS. hydro lobe profile and the dual throttle body and TW intake.
I am also not sure if the 700HP build used OTB heads and valve job? Perhaps some power there also.

 

[stuska1]

This was out of the box Trick Flow's, 496 ci, pump gas, hyd roller lobes with solid lifters, Holley efi. This was a pretty comprehensive build with a lot of attention to detail. I'm not sure I see the tunnel wedge and (2) throttle bodys making 30moreHP but I guess it's possible.

View attachment 458514
View attachment 458515

Aluminum block= less hp

 

[scott foxwell]

Aluminum block= less hp

I agree and thought about that. I guess maybe the 700hp is more realistic than I'm giving credit for.

 

[BLUEOVALRACER]

This was out of the box Trick Flow's, 496 ci, pump gas, hyd roller lobes with solid lifters, Holley efi. This was a pretty comprehensive build with a lot of attention to detail. I'm not sure I see the tunnel wedge and (2) throttle bodys making 30moreHP but I guess it's possible.

View attachment 458514
View attachment 458515

You should post this picture in the Engine Porn Thread in the TOBT section that's a Very Nice looking engine!!

 

[HS400]

Were these TFS heads out of the box?

 

[Gary Blair]

I could easily see 30+ HP more with a solid roller lobe profile VS. hydro lobe profile and the dual throttle body and TW intake.
I am also not sure if the 700HP build used OTB heads and valve job? Perhaps some power there also.

Spot on this is impressive.