That’s a nice deal!

 

Those FE engines can run!

What's it going in?

 

Going in a '63 1/2 Galaxie 500 2 door hardtop.

 

Sweeeet

 

Sweet build AndyF!

The Ford FE forums are full of so called experts poo-pooing the 700 hp.
Funny thing is they are comparing builds using 50 year old cylinder head designs and saying this is not possible. - And having no experience using these new castings.
In the FE world they eat their own sadly.

 

Actually 2 of the more respected FE builders out there are saying the numbers are suspect. One of them has had the Trick Flow heads on a flow bench and did not like the way they flowed.
What 50 year old heads are they comparing them to? I see Edelbrock's and BBM's not Ford heads. Your reading comprehension is more than a little suspect.

 

Sorry Mario,

Edelbrock heads are very similar to the factory Ford heads. The BBM yes have a better combustion chamber. However, both heads have a similar 1960's port architecture.
Big and inefficient.

I guess I am stupid to believe a new port design will not perform better than old school designs. Sorry for my complete ignorance.

It isn’t stupid, Scott Foxwell pushed up an 850 hp FE with some of those obsolete heads. There’s a twist to the wrist that can make them all work if you know where to improve it. Out of the box it seems a little optimistic, but not saying that getting a proper flow line and room for the mixture to speed out for a good burn can’t do it. Magnifying them they will back over .600 unless you can move the head towards the center.

 

It isn’t stupid, Scott Foxwell pushed up an 850 hp FE with some of those obsolete heads. There’s a twist to the wrist that can make them all work if you know where to improve it. Out of the box it seems a little optimistic, but not saying that getting a proper flow line and room for the mixture to speed out for a good burn can’t do it. Magnifying them they will back over .600 unless you can move the head towards the center.

The valve head canted away from the bore.

 

Excellent power and torque. What will your Mopar faithful say when they find out you have stepped into the dark side?

 

Well I was a Ford guy before I became a Mopar guy. When I was 16 I had a '56 F-100 with a 351C in it. I did the engine swap myself in the driveway using my Dad's (very small) collection of tools. That was a hack job but it ran. Lucky I didn't kill myself. Next car was a '69 Torino Cobra with a 428 CJ. Bought that car for $500 off a used car lot. Got tired of bashing my knuckles against the shock towers so I switch to Mopar. Bought a '65 Dodge Coronet with a 426W that has a Max Wedge setup on it for $1500 and never went back to Ford.

This 482 project is for a buddy of mine. Not my engine, I helped with the engine design and shot the pictures for Car Craft. It is a monster of an engine. We figured it would make 650 hp but it got up and rocked on the dyno. The dual throttle body setup with that killer intake really works.

The data log shows baro reading of 101 kpa and the MAP sensor is 100 kpa so only 1 kpa of depression! MAT sensor reading was around 60 degrees during the dyno pull so the engine was pulling in cold dense air and making the most of it.

We'll have it on a chassis dyno later in the year. The Galaxie needs a new fuel system and a new trans before the engine goes in. Once the engine is in there the owner is going to need to upgrade the drum brakes too I imagine!

 

And those guys used the wrong air filter. Haven't they watched the engine masters test on air filters?
There's probably 30 hp and 15 # more with a better deal up there .

 

Yeah I don't like that air filter either and I agree it is costing some power. But the owner likes that air filter and it is the only one that kinda sorta fits under the hood.

 

I never said that traditional FE heads Edelbrocks (with porting) or BBM heads would not or do not make decent power numbers.
They certainly do! I love FE's.
The issue I have is the dis-belief on this build. If I can't do it no one can attitude. Why?

"My Edelbrocks have gone 9.17@149 using those big inefficient ports with the awful chambers. Horrible heads.
TFS heads are not that different, still meant to bolt on like very other FE head"

Mario has a very fast car - no question.
Take a look at the short side height and angle - as well as the dreaded (by some) floor wing. It certainly is a significant departure from Edelbrock FE heads available.

And yes the heads alone do not make the build - it is a combination and attention to detail.

Again great job on this FE build!!

 

I never said that traditional FE heads Edelbrocks (with porting) or BBM heads would not or do not make decent power numbers.
They certainly do! I love FE's.
The issue I have is the dis-belief on this build. If I can't do it no one can attitude. Why?

Not the first time a happy dyno has been used to help sell a new product. No doubt they work well and the builder came up with a heck of a combo.

"My Edelbrocks have gone 9.17@149 using those big inefficient ports with the awful chambers. Horrible heads.
TFS heads are not that different, still meant to bolt on like very other FE head"

Mario has a very fast car - no question.

Not in my world even in my low dollar corner of that world. But it does alright for the money I spent, thanks to a lot of help. Would be interesting to see it compares to my combo in my car. Would it be quicker or slower?????
Mines never been on the dyno but calculators say 650ish in a 2700 lb car.

Take a look at the short side height and angle - as well as the dreaded (by some) floor wing. It certainly is a significant departure from Edelbrock FE heads available.

And yes the heads alone do not make the build - it is a combination and attention to detail.

Again great job on this FE build!!

I also agree, will be a great combo for a lot of people

 

That is some pretty good results for a pump gas FE, nice. It gives me hope for my 14to1 484 Hi-Riser FE that will hopefully be on the dyno later in the spring. More compression, more flow, more cam, just don't know how the stock type combustion chamber and large by huge stock type Hi-riser port will effect the results. I'm hoping for HP peak around 6800 to 7000 rpm. I think all those CC street rollers have a 110CL ground in on 106, at least that was what my CC300 street roller (255@.050, 6.60 lift) was for my 466BBF, it made 666hp with a tunnel ram on pump gas.

 

You might like this one...

 

I think there's a whole lot more going on with these new heads from TF than meets the eye...or flowbench. I'd sure like to have one to look at. Great build andyf.

 

I will need to look up the exacts - - but it was a half filled factory block, a modest solid roller with around .700 lift, a Dove tunnel wedge with a pair of QFT 750s. I recall compression around a dozen, and I know that they were 1964 heads prepared by Joe Craine out of Texas - a gent who helps out with the Ted Eaton EMC crew. I remember it being a bit fussy on the initial runs but started sounding really good as we got a grip on her...

Guys that are Super Stock serious on these heads will add about an inch of brass to fill the bottom of the ports...this one was pretty normal in comparison.

 

Thanks, can you tune me in on where to start with timing and spark plugs with the dove alum heads?

 

Do your Dove heads have the "big" or little plugs? They made them both ways.
As for timing - if it has the OE "boot heel" chamber its gonna want more than most folks would be comfortable running these days.
I have had these things "want" over 40...

 

Thanks Barry, it has the big plug with the boot heel, the most I've ever ran was 36 (never got the chance to tune) degrees with the flat top pistons, I might start at 36 and work my way up. With the dome piston I figured it might need more. I remember talking with a 428 stocker guy at the action track (1/8th mile) in Terre Haute In. back in the 70's and he said that he left with 44 degrees and when he got in 4th gear he would drop it back to 38 degrees, he had some type of vacuum canister hooked up. Thanks again.

 

Back when I was running a 428CJ I used to leave with about 42 or 44 and had a micro switch on the shifter to pull 4 degrees out in high gear. Car would pick up a MPH or two that way but it never helped ET much. MPH was good to have bracket racing.

 

All I can say, since I was banned from the FE Forum is that the FE is a strong engine that can overachieve, The factory racing offerings are very close to what modern heads can achieve. Mario 428 and BarryR along myself know that the engine fathered by the Edsel had hit its stride by the end of the 1960s and are currently barely surpassed by aftermarket offerings. As aluminum is becoming increasingly hard to come by, we really need to cast these heads in iron. The major weight difference is the intake anyway. Iron Highrisers with better chambers for stroker engine like a 454 4.125x 4.25 FE, etc, iron heads won’t hurt them at all.,TFS sin iron? Hell yes! Why not?

 

I built these engines for 40 years, I am legally blind surrendering my license. I still have a 394 ci FE that does very well with ported C4AE-G heads and Mario’s Holley SD and it wails like a banshee that is on fire and is 30 years old. The solid cam formula Ford should have built. I see no reason why we can’t cast iron versions with factory and modern features, the best of both. And the comment that the FE Forum eats their own is quite true. I’m banned for a few reasons, but primarily because my 310 cfm CAAE-G heads have disappeared from the machine shop, and when I inquired for information regarding their disappearance, I was banned for being a disruption. I was, but many disruptions were based upon the failure to want to move forward as it might threaten the market for factory heads. And I did discuss matters with the prime movers if needed improvement on BBM heads to make them excellent for small bore strokers. These combined with an over aggressive vendor/builder got me banned for life. I can be reached at billballinger1@icloud.com. Btw, the C4 heads that disappeared, I had paid in full for.

 

If you are using that peanut shape cc, 38 will be as much as you will need in timing I have never seen an FE run more than 40 degrees, in class racing

 

That aftermarket Tunnel Wedge looks to have smaller runners than a Ford TW. Perhaps it is the camera angle?

 

This was out of the box Trick Flow's, 496 ci, pump gas, hyd roller lobes with solid lifters, Holley efi. This was a pretty comprehensive build with a lot of attention to detail. I'm not sure I see the tunnel wedge and (2) throttle bodys making 30moreHP but I guess it's possible.

 

Aluminum block= less hp

 

I could easily see 30+ HP more with a solid roller lobe profile VS. hydro lobe profile and the dual throttle body and TW intake.
I am also not sure if the 700HP build used OTB heads and valve job? Perhaps some power there also.

 

Spot on this is impressive.

 

Were these TFS heads out of the box?

 

Bill, you need to go back to the beginning of this very old thread.
Many were poo-pooing the then new Trick Flow FE heads.
Now most of those unbelievers are using them in most performance builds.
I like the newer TF heads - as well as the BBM heads with a decent combustion chamber.
Pro-port CNC Edelbrocks can be made to make great power as well (on high $$ big cubic inch builds).

 

Oh I do too, the TFs are a huge step in the right direction Sorry Mario. You have the cubes they are mandatory for. I have followed Ben Alameda forever. To check for NA backup when the heads are off, check the pistons at about the 1 o’clock position for a brown colored stain that indicates trapped mixture. You can help clear it by moving your LSA out by regarding cam position and where the quench smacks. If you can try a wider LSA cam, or V- groove the chamber to get the mixture to the other side. TFs are so nice, I have had a left nut for trade for a set. The 394 left black marks all up and down the street when my neighbor tried it out but he said it was too spooky for him. We were at $5000 and he had to walk way. He was pale after the test drive. The tell- tale said 7300.

 

Ed Morels FE that he and Rocky campaigned in the Thunderbolt Clone, One Eyed Jack..
Blue Thunder Medium Riser Heads
Dove 4 x 2 Intake manifold

 

If memory serves me she went a best of 9.80's with 4 speed on a 9" tire. With an auto she went 9.50's on a 9" Tire