I need to build a LS for my offroad long travel Bronco. The goal is 500 hp at the crank with as much torque coming in as early as possible. Pump gas, would like to keep it natural. Must be dead nuts reliable, it is a long walk to anywhere if we break down in the desert.
XTate
Just to give you a idea my junkyard LQ4 (6.0) with a cam, TBSS intake manifold, 92mm throttle body and 1 7/8 headers made 410 rwhp through a th400 and 3500 stall. So it should be close to 500 flywheel and pretty cheap.
Stock Gen 3 pistons/rods/bolts/crank, Sloppy Stage 2 cam and decapped injectors and you're there. Won't be pretty but it will make then umber.
Stock pistons like to crack ring lands under hard ise even at 500.
He wants a reliable offroad powerplant, why not bypass one of the very few LS shortcomings.
Bad gas on even low boost can wreck a piston.
I would go with some cheap weisco pistons, good bearings, thicker and hardend pushrods, trunion upgrade and stud the heads.
Then procede to beat the living shit out of it on 10psi every damn day!
He wants a reliable offroad powerplant, why not bypass one of the very few LS shortcomings.
Bad gas on even low boost can wreck a piston.
I would go with some cheap weisco pistons, good bearings, thicker and hardend pushrods, trunion upgrade and stud the heads.
Then procede to beat the living shit out of it on 10psi every damn day!
Look, that blower is almost 6K and a 408 stroker kit is $ 2500 plus a little machine shop bill. So the 408 wins this bench race. Also you need to include the core cost, can I get to the goal for less money starting with a $ two hundred 4.8 core or is it better to start with a good running LS3 ( L92 ) for $3800 out of caddy?
You want low rpm big torque motor build a 408 since you think stock motor break pistons at 500
6.0, ported stock heads, mid sized cam, appropriate exhaust. Over 500 crank all day. Cant imagine someone quoting a 6k blower or a 408 build for his goals.
This. Don't need to worry about a turbo dying on you and leaving you stuck in the middle of no where. Damn, if my stock 2014 Camaro can do 425hp, why couldn't a little bit of porting on a set of stock 6 liter heads and a mild cam get you to 500hp. I plan on doing something similar with a better set of heads to make 600hp on pump gas for our slow car.
I can’t imagine going NA when you can make more TQ for less money with a simple turbo kit using a 100% factory motor and manifolds.
ANY turbo LS with a $190 shipped gt45 will make 500 crank hp dead stock using very little boost. And be pretty darn reliable Im tuned correctly IMO. Go with the biggest engine you can afford for the most low end. Buy a set of $115 howards valve springs on the stock cam and leave the rest alone. You don’t even need an intercooler for your goal. could even shim a $60-70 set of blue/yellow LS6 valve springs.
Leaving the engine as stock as possible is where your reliability lies IMO.
ANY turbo LS with a $190 shipped gt45 will make 500 crank hp dead stock using very little boost. And be pretty darn reliable Im tuned correctly IMO. Go with the biggest engine you can afford for the most low end. Buy a set of $115 howards valve springs on the stock cam and leave the rest alone. You don’t even need an intercooler for your goal. could even shim a $60-70 set of blue/yellow LS6 valve springs.
Leaving the engine as stock as possible is where your reliability lies IMO.
I don’t agree. There is nothing unreliable about a properly setup turbo system. Look at semi-trucks and lemans cars… clearly a turbo can be very reliable. Farting around with the OEM valve train/heads is more unreliable IMO. And will cost you more in the end making less power much later in the rev range.
There aren’t many 2014 camaro long blocks laying around junk yards “cheap”. Yet you can pick up a gen3 5.3/4.8 for $200-500. Spend a few bucks on a very modest turbo kit and make over 500 crank with a healthy bone stock long block and mild valve spring. I’m sure if the stock valve springs were healthy you could easily make 500 crank. Could even shim them a bit. You’ll make more torque early in the rev range as well.
There aren’t many 2014 camaro long blocks laying around junk yards “cheap”. Yet you can pick up a gen3 5.3/4.8 for $200-500. Spend a few bucks on a very modest turbo kit and make over 500 crank with a healthy bone stock long block and mild valve spring. I’m sure if the stock valve springs were healthy you could easily make 500 crank. Could even shim them a bit. You’ll make more torque early in the rev range as well.
The one caveat to the boost suggestion is that it's MUCH easier to fuck up if you're not experienced with such a setup. Not sure how handy the OP is with a welder either.
For something stupid simple, cheap, and fun... I would probably find the cheapest 6.0 out there, throw some 243 heads on (maybe with .030 shaved off), PAC1218s and an Elgin E-1841-P off ebay. Shouldn't have more than $1800 into the whole thing rounding all the numbers up to the high side. I may do that myself if the 4.8 in my daily ever decides to shit.
For something stupid simple, cheap, and fun... I would probably find the cheapest 6.0 out there, throw some 243 heads on (maybe with .030 shaved off), PAC1218s and an Elgin E-1841-P off ebay. Shouldn't have more than $1800 into the whole thing rounding all the numbers up to the high side. I may do that myself if the 4.8 in my daily ever decides to shit.
Craigslist and facebook for me. I've bought 5 of them in the last 2 years all for $600 or less. My gen3 5.3 was $220. Getting one 100% complete may cost a bit more the first time around. Usually pick up semi-complete long blocks.
The torque/power band on a small turbo 6.0 VS an NA 6.0 aren't even close. The NA stuff will be peaky and much less useable in an off road situations IMO. You'll have a table top torque curve from 3k (or less) to redline with a baby turbo and stock cam. I'd bet you'd have 450+ftlb at 3000 rpm with a 6.0. 400ish+ with 5.3 at moderate boost. (7-10lbs)
The torque/power band on a small turbo 6.0 VS an NA 6.0 aren't even close. The NA stuff will be peaky and much less useable in an off road situations IMO. You'll have a table top torque curve from 3k (or less) to redline with a baby turbo and stock cam. I'd bet you'd have 450+ftlb at 3000 rpm with a 6.0. 400ish+ with 5.3 at moderate boost. (7-10lbs)
'Heads only' can get damn close too with a good set of cathedrals and all the bolt ons, good tune and a stock cam. Theres always alot of good secondhand stuff around too if you look around. Still has alot of torque down low and motor feels standard. Its a good opportunity to change the springs also, and a smaller chamber will get you more comp, add a 160 stat so it runs at 170 ish.
But even a tiny cam can really add to that.
But even a tiny cam can really add to that.
Guy asking about NA build advice any you people have gone from turbos to thermostats.
Can't make this shit up.
Clean up heads , Cam, and Headers is my vote.
Can't make this shit up.
Clean up heads , Cam, and Headers is my vote.
Exactly!
But clowns want to throw a turbo on a junkyard 4.8 or 5.3 and run it as-is.
The OP wants something dead nuts reliable since 200-300 miles away from civilization who is going to fix it or tow it home???????
Again, if my STOCK 2014 Camaro can make 425 at the crank with a STOCK tune, why can't a mild 6.0L do 500 AT THE CRANK? No stinking turbo needed..........
Whatever, his money, his decision.
But clowns want to throw a turbo on a junkyard 4.8 or 5.3 and run it as-is.
The OP wants something dead nuts reliable since 200-300 miles away from civilization who is going to fix it or tow it home???????
Again, if my STOCK 2014 Camaro can make 425 at the crank with a STOCK tune, why can't a mild 6.0L do 500 AT THE CRANK? No stinking turbo needed..........
Whatever, his money, his decision.
No I think I was pretty clear on the OP's question.
I was just stating the direction everybody has gone with it.
I was just stating the direction everybody has gone with it.
Hey, I am the OP. I do not post very much, but I do check in often. I want to thank everybody for their replies so far. 1st let me state that I love turbo's on a LS but it is just not right for this build, it will just not work, there is no room for it under the hood, I have close to 20 inches of wheel travel, with large coilovers and bypass shocks with a cage around the engine and a giant air cleaner box and still the oem ac equipment. Also I do not think most of you understand how hard we beat these trucks, the weight of the turbo out on the end of the exhaust, would crack shit all the time. If I went with boost at all I would go with one of the small oem blower off a LSA. So here is a new question on the old question can I reach my goal of a reliable 500 flywheel hp ,bottom end torque,ect.. with cam and heads on a 5.3 ? or do I need a 6.0 ? what is less money in the long run ?
Its going to be tuff to get 500hp on a 5.3 n/a..you could do ls3/l92 heads or ported 799/243s an get it with just that and a cam.. search 6.0 builds yellowbullet in google and a bunch of threads from here should come up..seeing your not wanting to buzz it high a fast cath port 6.0 would be the route i would take
Small bore NA engines will never have the grunt down low I’d want with an off-road setup.
If you can’t find a 6.0 cheaply (I never can) I’d grab the cheapest 4.8 U can. Sonic check and bore it out as much as you can. Should be ok to around 3.9X. (LS1 bore)
Run the cheap speed pro hyper pistons ( around $220 last I looked)
238/242 Elign camshaft ($242 shipped)
Howards .600 lift drop in beehive springs. ($119)
Any of the small chamber LS cath. port. heads with a decent home port and valve job should do it. 243/799’s are the better heads but usually not worth the extra cost. You can put that money into a small valve head and get a better flowing overall head I think.
If you could run E50-E85 and bump the compression up, it would make it MUCH easier.
Here’s a good example of a cam only engine dyno on a 5.3 TSP did with a grind similar to the Elign Above. With the larger engine, nicer intake, and mild head work… it *should* easily meet your goals.
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If you can’t find a 6.0 cheaply (I never can) I’d grab the cheapest 4.8 U can. Sonic check and bore it out as much as you can. Should be ok to around 3.9X. (LS1 bore)
Run the cheap speed pro hyper pistons ( around $220 last I looked)
238/242 Elign camshaft ($242 shipped)
Howards .600 lift drop in beehive springs. ($119)
Any of the small chamber LS cath. port. heads with a decent home port and valve job should do it. 243/799’s are the better heads but usually not worth the extra cost. You can put that money into a small valve head and get a better flowing overall head I think.
If you could run E50-E85 and bump the compression up, it would make it MUCH easier.
Here’s a good example of a cam only engine dyno on a 5.3 TSP did with a grind similar to the Elign Above. With the larger engine, nicer intake, and mild head work… it *should* easily meet your goals.
Plenty of off-road turbo setups.. Cracking exhaust.. lol If you don't want turbos that's fine, but those are all poor excuses to not go turbo. You're gonna have a hel of time making power down low with a small bore engine like was already stated.
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