I have never seen a high horse combo benefit from them. They seem to do well in limited space applications on smaller motors but maybe some of their popularity on these applications has a little to do with packaging benefits and not so much with ultimate numbers.

 

use them..i was getting set-up to build big ones, but got screwed by my "partner"..lol...

the triy is a great way to do exhaust..think volumes for tuning..and yes, they take up a lot less space..and think area under the curve, rather than peak torque/hp levels...

sure, a "tuned" exhaust can make more power, at a single point..if you can keep the engine there, with gearing , it will run fast..

 

Generally what is the deciding factor?

I know the tri-y used to be the "hot ticket" years ago for the early mustang/shelby crowd for low rpm torque, but lately this arrangement is used in max effort NA applications.

The tri-y is attractive to me because I think it would be easier to fabricate and package in a tight engine compartment. But I don't want to give up an ounce of power!

do you have an application in mind ? car/engine/use ????

They out performed the dyno headers on my dad's 418" Ford:

Jon

 

I have found the Tri-Y headers work best in street, mild strip lower rpm engines under say 6800 rpm. But also those were usually smaller primary dia. so that might be as much the limiting rpm factor. Good for torque and over all power. I see no reason why they shouldn't be used in a max effort with larger primary diameters and larger collectors! I'd love to try them on my fox body 351 ride!

 

Nothing will beat them in our deal, but its only 900hp, and only 7000-9800rpms so.....

 

What cylinders would need to be paired on a BBC with a 4-7 swap cam??

 

1-3 5-7 8-4 6-2

 

I built a set for my Camaro years ago. After trying different pinch point diameters for the y's, I was able to get them working pretty good. The car went 8.90's and turned it 9,200.

 

there is so much more to tri-y headers than package. For the most part, they are made for accelaration, and most dynos can not measure this key factor. In the Cup business we used them because when building restrictor plate engines, we needed to reach max rpm as soon as we can.

these things are so tricky because they have to be paired correctly and the length and the sizing is crucial!!!!

These things are very hard to build and hit it right the first time. The fuel curve is a mystery when doing these things too......

When the tri-y header is built correctly, it will outperform anything else on the planet!!!!!


Proheader

 

there is so much more to tri-y headers than package. For the most part, they are made for accelaration, and most dynos can not measure this key factor. In the Cup business we used them because when building restrictor plate engines, we needed to reach max rpm as soon as we can.

these things are so tricky because they have to be paired correctly and the length and the sizing is crucial!!!!

These things are very hard to build and hit it right the first time. The fuel curve is a mystery when doing these things too......

When the tri-y header is built correctly, it will outperform anything else on the planet!!!!!


Proheader

As far as the length goes, what part would you say is the most crucial, the primary or secondary tube length?

 

There are two 66 novas here both, have dipped in the nines with 283's, and both use tri y headers. And both engines were done by Patterson's Racing. One belongs to old man Patterson.

 

There are two 66 novas here both, have dipped in the nines with 283's, and both use tri y headers. And both engines were done by Patterson's Racing. One belongs to old man Patterson.

interesting you metion these two cars.....i have been in length with the yellow car and even been to Newton. I am not a patterson fan for certain reasons but have put 37hp in a set of headers up on that dyno and never been invited back......

there is quite a bit left in the design in both cars. i believe if given the chance they would run much faster.....

time will tell on these two because the original header builder is no longer with us....will be interesting to see where the next set comes from for both cars.....

Proheader

 

Primary, but why John?

 

Because, im curious and i have Tri y's on my motor but i have not done any development with them yet. The secondary length is easy for me to change and tune, the primary =not so much.

 

pro-header, you are quite a bit ahead of most folks..

the cam timing idea is spot on....

 

alligator skin is top secret.

 

Lots of good intake guys that are unknown, and the theories are very different.....

It's not just about the alligator skin but where you put it in the manifold....:cool

 

Yellow car guy is one of my most favorite people. That is the truth, all kidding aside. Besides, I have a Cessna too..... We have gotten close to a deal but never pinned one down. The other side of the equation is a different story. I do quite a bit of Comp stuff and I do not do anything for them. Never had the chance. I am building a 34 roadster for myself and am looking to go bang on that index one day if I can ever get caught up.

The cam thing was a hard lesson to learn. Thank GOD for the Hemi customer. He is the one who put me in the loop with the guys at Comp, who I knew already. For the most part I just got lucky when we saw the fuel consumption and no changes......

To the OP......build a good 4 into 1 header and call it good. If you miss at the tri=y thing, it is going to be a tough row to hoe to get back to zero again.....

Proheader

 

I've seen and heard that a tri y header will cause things like excessive cylinder wall drying, dried out guides and other weird problems if the whole motor wasn't built for tri y's

Very strange that a header can have such a huge effect

 

Do any programs like pipemax calculate for tri-y designs?

 

pipemax does

 

" If you study the standard Tri-Y header for a SBC, they are designed to only work with the standard firing order. The pass. side header pairs 2 with 4, & 6 with 8.

Now the driver header is different. It pairs 1 with 5, & 3 with 7.

This matches the firing order somewhat 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2

2 is Y'd with 4, they fire 180 degrees apart
6 is Y'd with 8, they fire 180 degrees apart
1 is Y'd with 5, they fire 180 degrees apart
3 is Y'd with 7, they fire 180 degrees apart.

Now if you do a 4/7 swap, this is what happens: 1-8-7-3-6-5-4-2

2 is Y'd with 4, but now they are 90 degrees apart
3 is Y'd with 7, but now they are 90 degrees apart
(the other cylinders are still 180 deg apart)

My guess is that you will get some big time reversion (back flow) in the #2 cylinder & #3 cylinder.

You will need custom Tri-Y headers to work with the 4/7 swap. If anyone tells you anything different, they don't know what they are talking about."




Does this sound correct ??

And would pipemax be able to get "close" enough on the dimension to build a set of tri-y's ??

.

 

For strictly drag racing purposes........talking just the top 25% of the rpm.

Does a "perfect" tri-y setup stand a chance againt a well designed 4 to 1 ??

Also, if someone was interested in a tri-y, what are the chances a "catalog" tri-y would out perform a 4 to 1 setup ??

.

 

For strictly drag racing purposes........talking just the top 25% of the rpm.

Does a "perfect" tri-y setup stand a chance againt a well designed 4 to 1 ??

Also, if someone was interested in a tri-y, what are the chances a "catalog" tri-y would out perform a 4 to 1 setup ??

.

How much R&D do you think Hendricks Motorsports has done in just that ?



the catalog tri y I ran on my dad's 418"W out performed the dyno headers: Doug's headers: http://www.pertronix.com/catalogs/pdf/dougs/Dougs2012.pdf

 

If its big enough....sure

 

My question would be if the primaries are the same size on tri-y's.

 

Near as I can tell, headers are still a mystery and a serious "money pit" for all those interested in really unlocking some of those mysteries.

They are fascinating!

 

Come on Lobes.....I know your in the "know".....shed some light for those of us in the dark..

.

 

Knowledge-Money-Power
Which are you offering?

 

Ah, equations...

When it is not for love of the game?

$=k/t=P

t=time.

P=HP

Power being the end result. No quantity being guaranteed.

$, is substantially above the minimum wage.

 

Ive seen them on plenty of comp elim cars at every race, current races..... and top cars.

 

Ok, two choices...both are high quality "catalog" headers for my application. Which looks to be a "better all out" header for drag race specific. Really do not care if it loses power under the "used range". As long as either....peak tq increases or peak tq moves up in the rpm range. Both headers are with-in a couple hundred bucks of each other. And this is a pump gas LS 346" motor....

I have current graphs with 1 3/4" primary with 2 7/8" collector. Looking to make a little more steam...


First is the tri-y....1 7/8" primaries and 3" collector

Pic on the jig.

Primary of two merge

Second set are 4-1's, 1 7/8" with 3" collector.

Pic of merge and spike.

Thanks....

 

Ok, two choices...both are high quality "catalog" headers for my application.

Both headers are with-in a couple hundred bucks of each other. And this is a pump gas LS 346" motor....

RPM range ?