I've never used but I've seen threads and write ups about poor machining and porous casting or just flat bad casting.

 

I've seen the same, and then I've seen the exact opposite, so you see where my confusion comes from. I've got a set of 781's that I'm slowly working on porting and improvements my. The idea is to install 2.25/1.88 valves with some good beehive springs, tool steel retainers, and get them set up for a COS-cam spec'd cam... but I know that changing out those parts and having the heads machined to accept the new stuff is going to cost me about as much as a set of the Bravo heads.

Come to think of it, I really haven't heard anything about the Bravo heads, only ProComps, and they've been mixed reviews. I wonder if the Bravo are any better?

Ever hear of Skip White Performance?

http://m.ebay.com/itm/BBC-CHEVY-496...-11e7-b200-74dbd180914a%7Cparentrq%3A8b6ccb5a15d0ab64b887cf32fff872a6%7Ciid%3A1

 

The Chinese heads were a copy of the original Pro action/ Pro topline/ RHD heads from New Zealand. They are not near the quality casting as the dense grain sand casting of New Zealand. They do not flow as well. But they did also copy the flow sheet right of the Pro Topline site. They are soft and the guides are not quality or the seats either. The parts they use are worse. If you buy, get the bare heads only and put better quality components in them.

I would say if you are buying new, just save a little longer and buy Dart. Brodix, AFR, or Edelbrock castings bare and buy Manley valves etc.

All the other aluminum heads that have American sounding name are just people buying the Chinese castings, installing their parts and private labeling them, like Skip White.

 

...bare and buy Manley valves etc.

If I go any route other than my stock castings that was my plan regardless of which head I get. There's too many variables to buy a set of assembled heads and have them set up how I want them. I know I'm going solid roller, but I need to determine an accurate static CR, head specs, etc. Once that's done I can supply the needed info to get the right cam grind. Once I have the cam grind I'll be able to determine what spring pressure/rate is required. Just too much to buy as a package and "hope" it all turns out correct.

All the other aluminum heads that have American sounding name are just people buying the Chinese castings, installing their parts and private labeling them, like Skip White.

Not debating you, merely inquiring, but is this known to be fact? Is there a way to tell by looking at the casting?

 

So the wifey says no Chinese parts. I'm left with working over my 781's til they flow just over 350cfm or saving a bit more and going big with aftermarket American made. If I go aftermarket I might as well go aluminum... I don't see the point in spending money for aftermarket iron heads when I've got good starting points already. What to do, what to do?

 

Look at Dart Pro 1 heads. Takes pretty much standard parts and pistons. Will flow more than your 781 heads with no porting and be lighter. Get the flow sheet from the manufacturer of your heads and use that to help get a custom cam designed. Those 2 things will determine horsepower potential.

 

Planning on using COS-cam to get my cam spec'd and ground. I was looking at the Dart Pro 1's... bare. There's $2k. Gotta pay to play though. I figure another grand or so to dress em out. I've spent more on heads before. I just really want to something with these 781's.

Maybe clean them up, sell em, and put that $ towards parts is the route to take. I've got access to everything I need to make them like new again, but they'll need guides and intake valves at the very least. Previous owner must've floated the valves... a lot. The stems are mushroomed pretty good. Had to use a punch and small hammer to get them out. They had stock valves and springs in em, but I know the PO was running nitrous and leaned on it hard, so I'm sure they've seen some floating.

 

go with an American head. You will hate the ebay junk,,, its cheap for a reason

 

I think we all agree on that. I'm curious where the failures manifest. Cracked heads? Dropped guides/seats, etc

 

I think the main issues with the Pro Comp or Assult or any of the offshore heads is the machining. Yes there have been some porous castings but the machine work not being consistent is the biggest issue i have seen. I have a good friend with a machine shop and he has said if i do buy those then get them bare and do the machining etc myself. Use quality valves, springs etc and should be a decent head for a low price. Just my humble opinion

 

THIS! I have bought/used many, many sets. never an issue with the castings. even if a customer brings me a set assembled from someone else they come apart, are measured and inspected. corrected if needed. and BTW, how many castings are not going to get some port work/cleanup anyway.......

 

In m y opinion you will be disappointed even if the heads have no physical issues. They just do not flow like a head designed in USA after they are copied off shore. No one I know says, "I wish I had used Offshore heads instead of these USA heads because I really wanted to go slower."

Dart Pro 1 heads are a good value. If you want to go cheaper, Brodix castings can be had for less if you hunt around. Like around $1250.

 

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The main issue "IS NOT" machining, the main issue is that selfish greedy losers keep buying that crap
and handing money to our only true enemy that can actually hurt our country!!!!
Russia can't hurt us, if nk was stupid enough to launch anything that came even close to Alaska or Seattle they would be melted within the hour!!
Even thinking about buying that stolen, counterfeited, inferior material, slave labor crap proves you are a selfish loser!!!!

It's 2017, everyone is aware of what's going on over there, and how it hurts us, and how the money you POS give them is spent to destroy us!!!


.

 

so you are saying I can walk into your garage, home or trailer and will not find one thing made overseas? I bet 1/2 of the cloths you had on when you typed that were made overseas, not to mention where the phone or computer /parts you typed that BS on was made.

 

Brand new head,,not mine tho.. Junk.. Save your Money and do it right, the first time..

^^^^ and you know all about these. lol

 

Sold. To hell with that. How'd that even happen? Do you know?

 

And i forgot, the other head is cracked in the roof area. Aside from the seats eaten away and about to drop, this will make Run forest, Run and break land speed records.

 

Sure, the castings are junk from the get go. Casting for one, is too thin in the stud boss area. Upon further inspection on the other head, found cracks in the roof of the runners, You should see what the seats look like. Junk seats too. Just garbage material. Parts of the " guides" that's another story for a rainy day. Like the machinist told him, Excellent door stop. It's called, flood the market with JUNK.

 

The guys who are really at fault for all this counterfeit, cheap parts are the businessmen who went overseas to profit from the cheap labor sources. The people who make this stuff don't even know a Eagle rod from a Big Block Chevy head. They just make something that looks like what ever they are handed, without really anything, except how much the buy wants to pay. And they don't have the materials to make good parts anyway. The guy that owns Pro Comp, renamed Speedmaster, or what ever they will call it next when people catch on to the quality this junk is, is one of those guys.

 

The guys who are really at fault for all this counterfeit, cheap parts are the businessmen who went overseas to profit from the cheap labor sources.
The people who make this stuff don't even know a Eagle rod from a Big Block Chevy head.
They just make something that looks like what ever they are handed, without really anything, except how much the buy wants to pay.
And they don't have the materials to make good parts anyway.
The guy that owns Pro Comp, renamed Speedmaster, or what ever they will call it next when people catch on to the quality this junk is, is one of those guys.

Exactly, I was one of the idiots that bought the cheap china plastic vacuum cleaner when they came out.
I was the idiot that bought the cheap china toaster, microwave etc etc.
I was just back from serving overseas, I had a wife and baby to support and to be honest, we didn't know or think about the big picture back then.
We weren't thinking about losing all the jobs making toasters.
We just saw the HUGE price difference, and being young, dumb and greedy, we wanted more and more for the same dollar.

Now you have these morons making excuses and idiotic comments for their stupidity and greed!!!!!
Of course some of us look for non china crap for everything 1st, and if we can't find it, we have to decide if we really need it or just want it.
Do we have a choice when our phone breaks???
Can you find a non china mouse??

I only buy HP & Gateway stuff, but where do they build everything
My lunch box just broke, guess where all the lunchboxes were made, so what do we do, let our food spoil in the heat or buy what you can find??

It's 2017, there is no excuse not to know what's going on, and admit if you don't care that you are a greedy loser.
If you do care, then you do the best you can, and at least try to do the right thing!!!
Guys like that POS skip white praying on morons & greedy leeches.
walmart selling something made 9000 miles away for 1/2 the price of something made in your own town.

Maybe if the people would start doing the little things, and go without for a little while we can break the china stranglehold on products flooding our country!!!!!
At least that's what I'm trying to do. I don't have a 60-70 inch TV, I don't have foreign cars, I don't have china crap on my cars, trucks, trailers that I have a choice.
Do I have china resisters in my MSD box, no idea, but what do we do go back to a 1970 points distributor??

So make all the excuses you want, if you are a greedy loser & leech, crying about where our socks are made doesn't change you are a greedy loser & leech!!!!
If I can't afford to buy something, I don't go buy a stolen, counterfeited, inferior material, slave labor product for 1/2 the price.
I go without, or wait until I can afford the product made down the street.


.

 

I don't know why but I thought this was the drag race thread.

 

EXACTLY! to O.P. sorry to screw up your thread.....thought you were looking for useful info!?

 

if your looking for a set of cheaper heads maybe look into the pro maxx heads, i have an older set before they where pro maxx, they are patriot performance, anyways, from my understanding they are cast over seas, and final machined in alabama , the set i have is very nice, all the machine work is clean, the castings are clean, and i think they cost less than 1500.00 for bbc , i know there are several other good reviews on them so maybe look into them if its not a nitrous or blower motor, i think they are just fine for a mild NA motor.

also you could look into what chad speier has to offer i know he has some budget heads that perform well.

 

I don't know anything about pro comp heads. I've seen some good running cars at the track running them. I've seen plenty of broken off rocker stud bosses on aluminum heads (all different brands). The one in the picture is the first pro comp head I've seen broken like that. That and a buck will get you a large coffee at McDonalds. Sometimes you just gotta put your money up and see what you get lord knows they're cheap enough if they end up being junk pitch them in a dumpster and move on.

 

The first one with the directional arrows.. Cracks

The second one, look just how thin the roof is.

 

Sorry about the size of the first picture. This one, look just how thin the casting actually is. Stud boss area. And this was just a minor port match. Don't mind the garbage in the ports, i pulled them out of the scrap bin.

 

HA! First one was friggin HUUUGE and the second was a little small, but I was able to blow it up. I appreciate you pulling those out to take pictures for me. That's what I was looking for, quantitative evidence of "they're good" or "they're shit". I'm gonna go with "they're shit" after seeing that picture. I'm not sure how much you will get for scrap metal, but I'm sure it isn't nearly enough to offset the initial investment. That's too bad that you had to go through that. How in the hell did that happen? What was the setup, engine conditions when it let go, etc? Just curious.

I don't know which post it was, but quite a while back I posted that the wifey said "No Chinese parts" after I showed her some of the responses, and I'm good with that. I've made the decision that I'll start with porting my 781's and if I don't tear them up in the process, I'll go with dressing them out with a set of 2.25/1.88 valves (Manley severe duty) and go from there. If I trash them I'll go with bare Dart Pro 1's. Now this thread is more of an informational thread for me.

I think it's amusing how some people jumped on this thread to point out how these heads are "ruining America". Sure, they're shit heads, we all agree, but these heads are not ruining America... America is ruining America. Ever stop to think how cheap Dart, Brodix, or any of the other manufacturers could sell their products if they weren't under the thumb of the US Government trying to squeeze every penny out of them possible? Why do you think AMERICAN auto makers want to manufacture their vehicles outside of this country? It's cheaper, plain and simple. Your Ford Mustang or Chevy Camaro is going to run just the same regardless if it gets built in the US, Mexico, or Canada, but if it gets built in the US it's going to cost more. That's because companies have to cater to bitchy little entitled fucks who think that their less-than-high school educated ass is worth more than $15/hr, and they'll get a union to feed right into their bullshit, and the unions will do it because they want a piece of the pie.

You want to see the problem with America and jobs? Look up some of the stuff Mike Rowe has posted on his instagram and wherever else he writes. That man had worked in sewers, shit farms, the nastiest places that you can think of. One of my favorite things he ever wrote was, "You know what all of these places I've been to work had in common? They all had "Help Wanted" signs posted" Why in the fuck would a lazy piece of shit work when they can use the system to get free cell phones, groceries, health care, and money from the government? Ahh, but little do these uneducated fucks know that that is EXACTLY how a communist government is born. When you take away every possibility of prosperity from the people by giving them everything they need and making everything else unattainable, suddenly you control the people. Once you control the people, you can do whatever the fuck you want.

***mic drop***

 

There are always people looking to go faster and will be selling their old stuff. I would go that route before buying that new junk. Plenty of pictures of guides breaking/ sliding out. Valve seats falling out. Maybe if you buy then bare and put good parts in them, but hell, I would rather buy used stuff myself if I couldn't afford to buy the good stuff new.

 

If you are building a real race engine you buy Brodix or Dart heads. If you are building a street/street engine you buy AFR heads or edelbrock. If $ is your only criteria for building either, you buy chinese junk!

 

I agree with this mostly, but I wouldn't put AFR and Edelbrock in the same category. If I had to put them in order of quality and performance, Edelbrock would certainly be last and Dart would certainly be first, but I'd have to let AFR and Brodix duke it out to see who is second. Edelbrock is a very good head, but they are very conservative on ALL of their products. You'll be hard pressed to get an Edelbrock head to work as well as Dart, AFR, or Brodix. It can be done, but it takes a LOT of work. I would use Edelbrock on a daily driver because they are very reliable, but for all out power, Dart, AFR, or Brodix would be my choice.

 

I stated edelbrock is a street/strip head. That said, AFR, another street/strip head is well below dart no mind Brodix heads for race engines.

 

That all depends on which Dart, Brodix, and AFR heads you're talking about. A good set of AFR's will beat out entry level Dart any day of the week, and vice versa. You have to make an apples to apples comparison.