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My 4-link setup

23K views 71 replies 17 participants last post by  tt69camaro  
#1 · (Edited)
I have a cm round tube chassis 69 camaro that has the potential of over 2000 hp but I can't put much of that to the ground. My 4 link set up is: lower bar about 9 degrees raised ( I'm sure thats wrong) and distance between back bars is 9.75" and 5.25" in front in memory serves me correctly. On the foot brake, the back of the car lifts. At the track on the transbrake, the car seems to launch with little movement and goes right. I thought I would have it scaled this weekend. I would like to learn as much as I can so what set up should I end up with and what info do I need to know when this process is over for future changes?
Thanks, Chris
 
#45 ·
UPDATE: Went to the track last night. The first pass went slight right and had to lift once. The second pass went hard right (spun) and was aborted. We made a slight preload adjustment and the third pass went straight! It feels good to be going straight and I hope that continues. The car did seem bouncy going down the track. We made a tighter shock adjustment for next time. Thanks again for your help.
 
#46 ·
ALSO: I'm not noticing any front end lift, Should I try to drop the top front bars again? That would give me a 48.5" IC and 94% AS. My best 60' is a 1.18 so far with 33 x 18.5 ET streets.
 
#51 ·
First video: the car hits the bars pretty good, so you're not going to get any more front end lift when you are on them. Secondly, if you have 300+lb springs on the front, they are going to push the front-end back down. Like Jeff said in the other thread, you need stored energy from the lighter springs. I wouldn't recommend moving your instant center that short, but that's just me.

I couldn't tell anything from the second video.
 
#48 ·
Thanks Randy, It's good to watch it I can learn more that way. I wouldn't have thought I spun until I watched it. Do you have my last also?
 
#50 ·
I agree, I was planning on picking up a new set next year. I may be chasing my tail with the ET Streets. I may have to drop the gear to 3.50's as well as going with a taller tire. I'm already going through the traps at 7500 and I haven't turned it up yet.
 
#53 ·
Don't forget housing rotation. A properly setup car actually hits the bars on two different occasions. It should hit the bars initially, come off, and then get right back on them.
 
#54 ·
You have me talked into weaker springs in the front. I just haven't bought them yet. I started with 180's and they were too weak, then I went to the 350's. If you think there too big then should I try 250-300? I will look under the back of the car tomorrow to see what those are also.
There was a third run that I was hoping to see a video of if Randy got it?
 
#55 ·
200 to 250.
 
#57 ·
Thanks again Brian! The springs were a big help along with tightening up the rear shocks. The car felt so much better, I need to make a convertor change before I go out next.
 
#61 ·
UPDATE: I bought some new MT 33.5x16.5x16 slicks (bigger) and the suspension changed slightly. The bottom bars were now .9 degrees down in the front so I dropped it down one hole in the back and now there .9 degrees down in the back. Which set up is better? I also measured the pinion angle and I had .3 degrees up on the driveshaft and 1 degree down on the rear end. What is my pinion angle and is it ok? I will have a race this weekend and I'm hoping for some good runs. Thanks
 
#63 ·
If Billy says the Chicken can pull the train, hitch him up. I have messed with 4 link, 3 link, leaf, torsion bar and combination's of them for 40 years in drag and circle track applications. The math works. The problem most have is not taking everything into consideration. Getting anti squat is very simple. You just have to know if you want separation or rebound or a neutral setting. Note, you have a setting for both sides. Things that work with it get a little complex. Things like center of gravity location and it's relationship to power at the rear wheels and traction. Things like how much weight is carried on the bars and how much is supported by the spring. You will always have both. As there are many ways to skin a cat, some set ups seem way off from others but still work. When you get down to specifics they all prove true in math. The difference shows up when you have to make small changes to compensate for rough track conditions. You probably seen the bump that upsets the traction. How far out the IC is often makes it easier or harder to shift weight to the spring/shock package. General rule is, smooth track more on the bar and rough more on the spring. This seldom happens much with Drag racing now days. Anti roll bars pretty much cover equal contact pressure but I like to weight, preload or jack weight, then use ARB as back up. Something goes agaist the grain when you have two things working against each other.

This all being said, there are far more important areas that effect how your car works. The prime one is balance of COG-Power- Traction. If you get these right, it makes everything else so simple.
 
#64 ·
Billy,
So you think 1.3 degrees is too much pinion angle? Not sure how much it will move under power. And the bottom bar down .9 degrees in back is better? Your prvious post said I needed more AS so this could be a good move.
 
#66 · (Edited)
I'm going to throw out something that could be pure BS but make up you own mind. About 5 years ago I found a link to Tiger Quick change Rear ends that was implying their bearings created less drag, therefore produced more power at the rear wheel. In this article testing was done at a NASCAR shop. I know NASCAR does not use quick change rears, but they may use their high zooter bearings. It said the ceramic type bearing made up to 5 horse but more important was the pinion angles. No offsetting angle or double negative or positive was the worst. This made drive shaft act as a jump rope, causing loads. That mild offsetting angles up to -5/ +5 was most efficient. One other thing was tail shaft bearing showed big improvement going from bushing to ceramic bearing.

I can no longer find the article and as we all know, you got to say something to sell parts, so you make up your mind whether it's Fact. Then ask how much the last 5 hp cost you.
 
#68 ·
This made drive shaft act as a jump rope, causing loads.
Actually, what's happening is that a U-joint, when operating at an angle, provides an output which varies sinusoidally around the input speed. That is, if the input speed is 3000 rpm, the output might vary between 2990 and 3010 rpm in a sinusoidal manner. If the U-joints are phased properly on the driveshaft and the operating angles are equal and opposite, the effects cancel and the pinion speed is constant.
http://www.racetec.cc/shope
 
#71 ·
I tried the car with the bottom bars moved and the car didn't like it so I moved the bottom bars back where they were. I did move the front of the top bars down one hole for next time. Hopefully I can get the car working like it did at the end of last year. It seems ever since I put the taller tires on and tightened up the convertor, the car isn't "working" anymore. I'm not sure what happened but it is frustrating.
 
#72 ·
It's been a tough year but things are once again coming around. I'm 3.05 minutes in this video. Pay no attention to the brakes locking up at the end. Anyway this was a 1.17 60' and 3.16 330' with my 4-link set at IC = 48.5" and 83 AS. My thoughts are: what would moving the IC to 58.5" w/69 AS do for me? Is there any other ideas you can give me from watching the video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNitklfBMGg

Thanks