Msd pro 600 with there coils is much better then smart coils

 

I was smart coils and with twin 88mm turbos and 60psi boost i was running 233mph 1/4 mile.
Then i was swap to FT-Spark8 cdi coils and now with same boost car runs 249mph.
CDI makes way more energy to burn fuel.
I know Tom Bailey dragweek car runs now with msd pro 600 and now he don´t have anymore missfire problems. Same with Steve Fast radial car. Makes good power and speed.
If you are running with high boost and methanol fuel cdi is best to use.

Andres

 

can any ecm control the 600?

 

all depends on what ecu you are driving the smart coils with.. some just cannot do it properly, i know one tuner that did a back to back on a 4000HP car with a haltech and zero difference between the MSD and the coils...

 

With high boost you see that! High horsepower cars needs CDI coils.
With smart coil you need to lean fuel out to get it work.
I have one good question, why hemis runs with mag? To get more enegry burn fuel. Now many fast cars are changed magnetos to cdi coils and makes even better results with that.
You can´t see any smart coil 5000+whp engines

 

But in his case of 2500 hp ish, it should work fine on smart coils. My buddys 5.4 mod motor has been 4.29 at 165ish on methonal. Lot of cyl pressure on those small cubes

 

Up to 2500whp wasn´t big difference yes.

Andres

 

Holley ecu is a plug and play with the msd 600 cdi box

 

to be completely fair, I did end up going with the MSD pro 600, reasoning for this is because I do plan on making more power in the near future with a Noonan billet block (3-4000hp). so I guess you can just say I was thinking ahead as I didn't have either one of the coils mentioned in this thread.

 

Is it fair to say that if you run Holley or Fuel tech you need to go CDI at a certain point, if you run Haltech, Motec or Comsync you don't need to?

 

you are correct...

 

All the ecu does is turn them on and off? Is there more to it? What is the difference?

 

the ecu has to charge them correctly and they need to be wired correctly to work at high power, right ecu and right wiring 4000+ hp is no problems.

 

If you want peoples waste them time, then you can talk that...
We tryed that and I KNOW it´s not work good. With CDI was way better and car makes better power now.

Andres

 

These are of course, first world problems.
You guys make some awesome power.

 

I'm not trying to be a smartass buti don't see how an ECU can't drive them properly?


It is a simple square wave logic


When the coil sees the rising edge of the 5v being applied on the control line it starts charging

When the coil sees the removal of the 5v and that falling edge... It fires

If the ECU was messing up the falling edge it would likely be catastrophic as ignition timing would be nothing like commanded



Or are you suggesting the "bad" ECUs are messing up the rising edge... Say the rising edge late..... Reducing the dwell time from commanded?

 

I would say they are dwell limited in some way, that is the only reason they cannot make the same power.. haltech and motec have cars approaching 5000hp (with actual time slips to back it up not just a wanky dyno sheets to impress newbs on the internet) with zero issues and they don't have to "run lean" like the holley and other users say they "have" too.. its amazing they come up with a $2500 option "fix" the problem that does not exist for other brands....

 

so, the haltech runs the ignition? No need for anything else besides coils? Im looking/learning what to use for my new build, holley is everywhere, haltech not so much, so im trying to learn all i can before pulling the trigger....thanks, Scott in Texas

 

If you hold all timing with full boost, then ok, you CAN run with 70psi boost. Let´s sayed, if you need to take timing off in track then with rich fuel ratio it´s not work anymore, how it´s need. Here is my point!
WE ARE tested smart coils vs CDI in my car there was big difference ( No MATTER what ECU you use).
So you can run with smart coil but do you want, if you car works better with CDI ???

Andres

 

I take timing away all the time, no issues, your clutching at straws to prove something that plenty of people have and will prove as incorrect time and time again, awesome that the CDI works for you that's great, but its not needed when everything else is correct,

 

There is nothing wrong with my car. We are running with power management unit and FT600 ECU.
All wiring is done 110% good ( Mil spec wiring).
So no point to come say, that something is wrong in my car. Ok

 

where did I say something was wrong with your car? I said the cdi works for you and that's great, enjoy your cdi, good bye

 

Two guys who make big power and speed arguing over the details of ignitions coils. What a time to be alive! Thanks to both of you for your input.
What settings do you use when making big power for the coils? What things do you look out for?

 

What settings do you use when making big power for the coils? What things do you look out for?

depending on the motor, 6.5-8ms dwell time at high boost/rpm, 3ish at idle. At 7.5ms if you have all 8 wired to the same power feed they will be pulling around 40amps at 8500rpm. that's where most people fail they use 20ga power and earth wire.. at 70psi im at 8ms on my car..

 

Correct the only add on modules for a Nexus R5 is a plug and play CAN Buss EGT module or you want to run more than 2 WBO2 sensors. GM flex fuel sensor is also an option. If you need Haltech pricing please feel free to PM me here or email me directly to the address below in my signature.

 

"depending on the motor, 6.5-8ms dwell time at high boost/rpm, 3ish at idle. At 7.5ms if you have all 8 wired to the same power feed they will be pulling around 40amps at 8500rpm. that's where most people fail they use 20ga power and earth wire.. at 70psi im at 8ms on my car."

What guage power/earth wires do you use, and can you pull power from more than one feed? Cheers..

 

I have also wondered about this, Dale mentioned 40amps over 8cyl is 5 amps each, are you saying you get a overlap due to charging times so multiple coils energised at the same time... But at different rates? It hurts my brain I won't lie...

I've wired LS coils per bank and not had issues but that may not be correct

 

The factory Haltech ING-1A Smart Coil harness has a #6 copper main power wire fed by a 75A relay.

 

Each coil can pull 19 ~ 20 amps full tilt. Most people won't ever see that.
On 6 cyl I run two 10 ga mil spec wire to feed coils. One wire for each bank, 3 coils, and split to 16 for each power, grounds, same, same. The run is very short with my harness because of where the batt power distribution is placed, depending on where your getting power from you may need to calculate voltage drop and used larger wire.

 

i can tell you i have made 4000+ hp with 16awg 22759/32 wire on the power and earths with 8 coils running off a single high current output on a Nexus R5 with a peak of 42 amps at 9000rpm, i have data to back up what im saying..

 

Tell 'em Dale. Might need to say it again for the ones in the back!

 

haltech use a 14awg on their harness, it is over kill, even 18awg is more than enough, i run a single 12awg out of the nexus then split into 8x 16 or 18awg depending on the setup, the 18awg has run into the 3s on a big block chev at 3100lb so its plenty of power for most setups.