Keep it intercooled. You probably have a junk EBAY core like every other F-Body guy. Buy a good one.

 

whats wrong with a ebay intercooler? i dont mean for a 1500 hp car but what about a 600 hp car

 

The user said he's not wanting to go A/W. A/W's can be made to work just as good as an A/A on the street. However a properly setup A/W has more parts, is more complicated, weighs more, and is generally more expensive.

If you don't want all that mess slapping on a good A/A with a Garrett core will be the ticket for ya.



Jesus I can't believe I am answering this. They do not perform no where near as good as a Garrett core and you are leaving power on the table by using one.

 

W/A is fine for the street and keeping the charge cool is key to performance.

 

put a a2w on it and put a radiator in the a2w loop, so when u go to the track u can make the big A2W power, but on the street u can keep the consistent A2A temps? plus i think A2Ws are less restrictive

 

not wanting to go A2W with it running on the street.

:smt018








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like

 

Put the air to water in it and just put a tad bigger tank in the back than if it was a strip only car. I mean come on, you aren't making boost CONSTANTLY on the street!! Leave the pump off and it will act like it has no intercooler on it. If you make a hit on the street, create a trigger circuit to turn the pump on based on boost psi or ( my favorite) IAT temps. Friends car is setup that way. At 140 iat a relay is triggered to turn the pump on. Temps usually rise to 160 or so before the cool water hits the cooler and within .6 seconds IAT's are back Under 100.

 

Would running methanol injection be better then running a eBay air to air?

 

Well I have a eBay air to air and mounting is a bitch and would be 10xs easier just running methanol With a straight shot from the turbo to the carb hat

 

Ok, confession, it is an EBAY cooler, it was supposed to be good for up to 1200hp. If I put methanol on it will the meth keep the temps down or should I just change the intercooler?? Obviously by the this thread I should keep it intercooled, just want to do it right the first time.

 

eBay intercooler at your power level is going to be a FLOW restriction. If your only choice is that or nothing, take it off and spray meth. What's you hang up about street driving an air to water setup?

 

Ebay intercoolers quality is fine for the most part. Their just over rated and advertised to support more horsepower and flow then what they really are good for. Its sort of like their clothes. A large shirt in China is the equivalent of a small shirt here in the USA. :yawinkle:

If your going to go air to air intercooler and for the type of power you want to make. Get a custom intercooler made to maximize the space you have to work with. You buy the core for pretty cheap then weld the tanks on and position the inlets and outlets just as you need. Do a vertical flow as well so that it flows.

As for the air to water. If you don't want to lose your passenger seat and back seat then the A/W is out of the question.

As for water methanol injection. If your going to run this on the street with pump gas. Toss a meth kit on it for sure. Let me know if you have any questions or how I can help.

Rodney

 

Do a vertical flow as well so that it flows.

Horizontal flow intercoolers can flow just fine and always offer better cooling(unless your vertical flow I/C is 24" tall). We offer a 6" thick core that would suit his needs rather well.

Why do you spend all this money on everything else, and then see a $120 intercooler on eBay that supports 1200 hp and believe them?

My thoughts exactly. Maybe he bought the I/C from one of the "turbo experts" over on ls1tech who buy the cores for $100 and mark them up to $400 and sell them as 1200hp intercoolers! :smt082

 

am I the only one who doesn't understand people's logic???

The motor is a 408 with the best internals you can buy

I am putting a thumper 101 ballbearing on it

Yet

Ok, confession, it is an EBAY cooler

Why do you spend all this money on everything else, and then see a $120 intercooler on eBay that supports 1200 hp and believe them?

I am going to start selling 20,000 HP cam shafts on ebay pretty soon

 

I am going to start selling 20,000 HP cam shafts on ebay pretty soon

do u have a 10,000hp one for a 4 cylinder?

 

He needed to buy one of those "super efficent" air to air cores.. The kind that if he races his car on a 65 degree day.. This air to air will cool his intake charge just as good as if he ran an air to water.. With the water box packed with ice..

 

Rodney, you know as well as I do that losing the passengers seat or back seat isn't required for an air to water. I've seen PLENTY of street oriented setups with the core in the engine bay, in the fenderwell, behind the bumper. Saying that it's required to use the passenger seat or backseat is a BS bogus statement.

 

I thought the guy said in his first post he wanted to make 1500 horsepower with a 101mm turbo. I'm familiar with the small under the hood air to water intercoolers out there. I use to be a dealer for Vortech and Paxton superchargers years ago. Those intercoolers were really only good for about 700 horsepower max. After that they started becoming really restrictive.

Maybe you know of an air to water intercooler that fits under the hood and will support 1500 horsepower that I haven't seen yet.

Rodney

 

Ok boys, I am in the process of upgrading my LSX build and need some advice. The motor is a 408 with the best internals you can buy. I am putting a thumper 101 ballbearing on it, upgraded from my 88. I am loooking to make 1500 rwhp on my Street/strip car. My question is, I have an F-body camaro currently with a 4inch A2A cooler. Last year we with the old set up it ran some high IAT's, 180s and would nose over on the big end. I have heard some guys are doing away with the coolers???? Does this help?? Can it be done??? I have also been told to put a meth kit on it?? What is the best way to go, not wanting to go A2W with it running on the street. Please give me your experienced advice.

I don't think that the car nosed over because of the 180 IAT, I've seen higher numbers than that. What boost was that at?

Basically, if you know the temperatures and pressures entering/leaving the intercooler you can evaluate the performance of the intercooler. You can estimate the temperature entering the intercooler from the boost and assuming a compressor efficiency of say .7. Put a pressure tap on the discharge of the compressor or the inlet of the intercooler and compare that to the manifold pressure and you can get an idea what the pressure drop is across the intercooler. Of the 2, knowing the temperatures is the most important since a turbo can typically flow the same CFM with higher P1/P2 ratios depending on where you are on the map. Find out what those numbers are and you can evaluate rather or not you should spend $1000 or more to upgrade.

Personally, I think a street/strip car with a decent air/air intercooler is just fine. I have one on my car with a Spearco core that is actually undersized and the engine still has no problems making 1000hp.

Water/Methanol injection is not a bad idea though I have never used it. Just make sure the engine can respond to the change in A/F and temperatures if the injection system fails.

By the way, typically guys doing away with intercoolers are using either ethanol or methanol for fuel.

 

I was told by Bell that their 6" x 6.10" x 12" core will support 1400 hp . Its not very big .

 

Thats not much bigger then the cores Paxton and Vortech use. Take a close look at the core in the pic above. Its probably 11-12" long by 5" by 5". You won't find a car making 1500 rwhp running anything close to that size. We learned long time ago those intercoolers didn't work well past 700 horsepower on Mustangs.

Rodney

 

The setups I've seen that would support that amount of power were on twin setups with dual cores tucked behind the headlights. The only single setup I've seen for that power level had it mounted under the dash.

 

I hear you. Again, I was commenting on the build at hand. He mentioned and wanting to make 1500 rwhp (1700 plus at the engine) with a single turbo in a F-body (not much room under the hood. Especially when you have a 101mm under the hood) and drive it on the street.

Normally for a power level such as this. Its a race car for one and a cabin mounted air to water is used. I assumed he didn't want to chop up the car and loss creature comforts inside the car is all.

Rodney

 

Yea that's what I'm getting at too. At this point he's made it clear the power of the car is most important. At those numbers, it SHOULD be a 25.5 car at least, so the backseat area is already shot to hell. My car will be 1500 hp capable and I'm putting my air to water behind the passengers seat, running oval 4 inch tubing over the trans tunnel and building a nice center console over top to make look nice. Just trying to give as many options as possible. Maybe someone else can see a way he can have his Cake and eat it too.

 

Depending on the room in his front end. I don't know how far forward the turbo is mounted. If room permits. Make a big custom front mount air to air intercooler and throw methanol injection on it. If the intercooler is designed properly. It will flow to support his power. We can then pick up and lower the air temps down further with the methanol injection to make up for the intercoolers lack of cooling when compared to a large air to water intercooler.

I've been down this road with a handful of other guys doing the same and who have racked their brain over all this already. Most people simply dont want to chop the car up so the in car units are out of the question understandably.

Rodney

 

I run a A/W on the street with a prerad and ice at the track works the dogs bollocks,cool inlet temps is the key to making big safe horsepower.

 

bottom line... if your willing to put in the work anything can be done
like hiding a bigass inter cooler in a street car and all its related BS

 

I understand all the points you make Rodney, but I don't agree with em. I guess what it is I really don't agree with is pulling up short on the setup. If someone is willing to cut up a car to fit a 106, putting 2 holes in the firewall and mounting the intercooler behind the seats doesn't seem like that much of a deal to me.

 

I came across this discussion while doing a search on air-to-water for a street strip build. I am putting a 408 LS engine into my '69 Nova, and then add a couple Turbonetics GTK-650 turbos (66mm with .68 A/R). I had planned to just run an A-A front mount until I came across a local fabricator that has built a couple A-W sheetmetal intercooled intakes for LSX engines (similar concept as the ZR1). He starts with a CNC'd base and then fabricates the housing/manifold from aluminum plate. Here is a picture of his first intercooled manifold that was installed in a GTO:

I don't know the exact measurements of the cores he is using, but he claims one size is good for 1000 hp and his larger core is good for 1,300. Along with the manifold it would require a front mount heat exchanger and a water tank/sump pump. What are some opinions on using this for my application? I obviously like the compact layout and clean plumbing vs a front A-A. This isn't a max effort build, but I am hoping for at least 800 rwhp on pumpgas. Hoping to hear some comments...

 

What is runner length like on that intake?

 

Chev406, awesome concept. Looks like a decent design. Key word decent. The flat plenum like that leaves a pretty hard angle into the intake port. Can you stand for that intake to be taller? The center section of the lower plenum needs to be raised to make the port transition smoother. I'd love to see that intake separated out into sections. Very cool design. I know he built that one for hood clearance on the gto, would like to see it if he had more vertical room to package it.

 

I certainly can't take any credit for the design - just trying to see what you guys think about it's efficiency. I found a couple build pictures. Runner length is very short. I could stand a taller intake in my Nova with the 2-3" cowl hood that I run.

 

I certainly can't take any credit for the design - just trying to see what you guys think about it's efficiency. I found a couple build pictures. Runner length is very short. I could stand a taller intake in my Nova with the 2-3" cowl hood that I run.

Damn that thing looks heavy.