What size are the heads? Cc and CSA?

 

It s a hybrid 12* LS3 Liberty casting with my ports. Pretty sure they're about 265cc, 2.165/1.60. Not sure on the CSA.

 

She bad!

 

their 255 stock right scott..whats the deck thickness on them..i wish they had a smaller chamber..be nice if they where 60cc stock vs 72cc. Nice build

 

I thought they were 260cc. Deck thickness I don't know. I did these heads back in 2018. These chambers are 64cc.
Liberty is now calling their hybrid LS3 head 11* on their website. I don't know if they've changed anything since I did these but these were some of their first castings if I'm not mistaken.

 

Curious why not go LS7 head instead of the LS3 architecture?

 

Original engine broke a valve and destroyed one head. Rather than repair, we did a set of these. Only difference is LS7 intake won't bolt on.

 

Scott,

Looks and reads like a "bad ass" package. What's the upper rpm you're shooting for ?

 

Thanks Jon. This thing wants to turn some rpm. Probably upper 7K but the Achilles heel will be the crank driven oil pump. We'll have to keep an eye on the oil pressure.

 

Scott this should turn out well. Why did you keep the stock size intake valve? You got some good numbers but maybe leaving a bit on the table not going to 2.200 intake.

 

What's a Round about number for Cam on Duration and Lift?


"This Looks like a Smaller Version of the Data you sent me some time ago? Same valve angle @ 12 degrees. I'm like ER with did you Roll the head Or get them with no Guides installed and you Created your Angle. Ports come as cast? Because Liberty heads are Sold as a 11degree Head."


🤫
I'm bored & Ready for a Guesstimate. 🤣😂
Rough cam numbers Please?

✔ Your Mail 📬

 

What's a Round about number for Cam on Duration and Lift?


"This Looks like a Smaller Version of the Data you sent me some time ago? Same valve angle @ 12 degrees. I'm like ER with did you Roll the head Or get them with no Guides installed and you Created your Angle. Ports come as cast? Because Liberty heads are Sold as a 11degree Head."


🤫
I'm bored & Ready for a Guesstimate. 🤣😂
Rough cam numbers Please?

✔ Your Mail 📬

Got your message.
This would be the same head I sent you data on. Not sure of Liberty has changed the valve angle or we just got different info back when I did these. Everything I have written on these is 12*. These came from Liberty as a bare head, as cast with their valve job. Not sure who does the castings but they're nice other than they got the ex ports in the wrong location. They don't quite match any gasket I could find. Probably why they flowed so good.
Cam is wild with a ton of split. .705/.671 268/282 110 lsa in @ 107 icl. 55* overlap, 1.7 rockers.

 

🤔 800+ fwhp with the Lift @ .700

Around 7400- 7800ish

Thanks again ole Buddy ole Pal.

 

Suicidal... Now I was told Flyin Spec's with the 418 "800hp" Ls3 . I can't/ Won't say the exact numbers and your a Cam (Math"a"tion).

It's was a Hair Smaller in intake Duration and a 14 + Difference in exhaust Duration. No lift was given but was told "BIG" . So I thought Big .750 - .850 lift LSA nor ICL was given. The Comp was 13.5"ish

Figure it had more LSA as it peaked @ 8200 with the CID.

This will serve as Another one of our LS cam Reference points 👍

 

Suicidal... Now I was told Flyin Spec's with the 418 "800hp" Ls3 . I can't/ Won't say the exact numbers and your a Cam (Math"a"tion).

It's was a Hair Smaller in intake Duration and a 14 + Difference in exhaust Duration. No lift was given but was told "BIG" . So I thought Big .750 - .850 lift LSA nor ICL was given. The Comp was 13.5"ish

Figure it had more LSA as it peaked @ 8200 with the CID.

This will serve as Another one of our LS cam Reference points 👍

dave has told me the specs long ago on both the combos..prob like 2 yrs ago..you been picking up cam stuff an getting a handle on it..u know im about events an not dur talk..

i wonder what a 2.20 intake would do on these,would still fit a 4.0 bore..the exh valve size is plenty an the port looks good in stock shape an scott showed it will flow enough to support some decent power..so with a 2.20 i wonder if it could be a 410 or so head..didnt e.r use a set or work a set over..swear i seen something about him saying he did a set also..

scotts port is smaller then the floteks an id bet has way better velocity..

 

I've come to the Conclusion of just Purchase the TFS Ls7 head and fit it to your Bore size.


Each head has its own Key Features...Mast being Thick and a Proven winning combination.

CID has Raised Runners and a Port and valve Layout Created by a Known Race Team....
BES and there Thick.

FED F710 features a raised Runner with If Looked at the Runner is Angled Down at the Roof & 10 degree valve Angle. Thicker casting also.

MBE takes a Brodix part (#BR7 BS CNC $750.oo bare casting No seats or guides installed) and raises the runners with flow numbers that are on Par with TFS Ls7 heads testing on a Big Bore = 390's +

You come to the Point of How Much do I wanna Spend to Accomplish a given Goal.
I've Done all the Math on the given subject from Stealing a Port and adding Key features to a Good Brodix head to Doing it the China Way 👉 did that 🤣

👍
TFS Ls7 head and Match the Valves to bore size used. Raising the Runner .250 Would be Nice in a more Race friendly version like the Brodix.... $4k+ vs $2500 + change seats. No port work needed Unless you want 390 - 400+ cfm using a Smaller bore.

😉🤫
I've asked ER to make that Raised Runner 🗽 11degree Ls3 Head used in the REC into a casting/mold Available to Everyone.
Was told Not @ this time... And that was a few yrs ago.

 

The extra Meat/aluminum in the Rocker Pad area is Where the .250 Lift in runner location is seen. Also gives the Ability to angle/ get the
trajectory at the Angle 👍 Porters Preach about also Lessens the SSR turn Angle.

Look at the Maxed out Port Work and it's angle - trajectory Relative to the SSR.

Good imagination 😉 and how a head works.

 

This is the Only LS Build in My Favorite Section about a Engine In The Whole Wide World right now....

NPS a Build you did yrs ago
👇

Your Heads that were Used...😉 That U and or Your Team made.....

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Dave I think what I said comes to Light on your Quest of the Perfect Small bore Ls7 head.

Brodix small bore Ls7 from MBE or You Have MBE Work done on a Brodix Casting for around $4k and MBE gets 396cfm @ above .900...Raised intake and Exhaust 😢. It must have a Nice CSA: was told Good with a 418 to 7500-8k. So it's not big 268-273 cc or around 2.9 CSA I believe. Around the Same Size I've got now 😂🤣 Better Head with a Port Designed not Cleaned up...Darin did Do great work. But Real is Real.

Purchase TFS heads and Change Seats...
Priceless.
Does include CNC machine work.
Probably low 380's on CFM using a .065 bore

(WCCH Ls3 heads Showed a difference of around 8 cfm from a 4.030 Vs 4.125 test Bore using the Same Head)

Pricing and Shipping with State sales tax may Very 😂🤣....

By the time you Have Factory Ls7 heads Ported + Seats changed if They Weren't FREE or Cheap. Buy TFS. I started with a $600.oo pair of New Heads From China 😂🤣
$2k in work. No CNC machine work seen in the ports. Darin gave me the Hands on approach. 😉

Cost of TFS? Seats? Installation?

 

I agree, and I am still trying to get my hands on a set of Higgins small bore heads. Going to call Nathan direct and just see how much to get them sent over bare cnc'd. I did message w/ ER(really great guy BTW, very responsiive and provides a lot of knowledge) about shrinking the valves on a set of my oem LS7 heads I have and it's not worth it. Would have to change both seats so from a $$$ standpoint, not worth it. May have another look at the Mast small bores, also. I really want to go LS7, it's just the way to go. I did message MBE and never got a response. From what I am seeing is most of the LS world is focusing on the 4.065/4.125 bore. The 4.000 bore stuff is an after thought, for the most part, which puzzles me as the vast majority of the motors being built to go fast right now are 6.0 iron blocks. You would think that a small bore LS7 setup that is simple like a TFS head/ported stock intake would rule the market overnight. The scalability of the LS7 architecture is a real thing. The idea of a base head supplying big power from a 364 to a 468 w/ nothing but a cnc program/bigger valves upgrade along the way would seem to be a great idea. This whole having to buy 4 sets of heads/valvetrain/intakes/etc to scale up is ridiculous.

 

Dark, there are more then a few of them. This black Z06, there's a Yellow Z06 that made 780Hp with the GM intake:

Also do "normal" North America SB and BB, or 850Hp pump gas Vipers:

I just work with these guys. I don't own the shop or the designs.

 

Doesn't Matter your A Great Person with Data that I can always rely on as with Others in this Section. Being the World's Greatest section and all...

👍

 

Reason to buy TFS heads and change the Seats if Need be. But if a person has a iron Block 6.0 going to a Bore size of .065 over.
What you then Have is the Perfect storm for a Perfect idea. Because a Ls7 head will fit a bore size of . 065 over +. Purchase TFS heads and go from there. If the bore is Smaller change the Seats. The heads Flow as is from TFS with there CNC program.

If you look in the Hemi section I was on the Phone with Nathan of Higgins "Suicidal intake Thread" . .. Those heads will run you around $3200+ with Shipping 🤔 about the Avg cost of a Small bore head from

Mast/All Pro/TSP/CID by "GG", etc.....

I'd get and someday will get the same TFS head and do one or the other. I've got a spare gen 4 iron block 🤔 .070? Key is I'd have a head Ready in CSA size and Flow. I guesstimate on a .065 Bore low 380's Would be seen. Darin got me 378'ish.
Reason Y I think low 380's would be seen + the Law of Avg's 😉 if 393 is seen with the Ls7 and a bore of 4.125 what would a .030 bore look like 👇

http://www.proheads.com/WCCH%20L-92.html

I figure the way I go about things....🤔
Buy the head and Have what's typically done? Work the SSR and Bowls... Maybe get 390's like MBE..... Out think the problem or cost of.... change seats if I stay with the 408. 😉

Someday....

 

Key is the CSA on the TFS head. 🤔 on a 427 it's good to around 7000. A little opening up gets the same engine to 7500. Now let's use common sense on a Ls3 short block & the peak would be? Also remember Cam'ing and the ports Physically Smaller in Size vs the Ls3.
The $10k head combination used on Ls1tech gave me the basic answer of the TFS head would be a Perfect idea and use of, on a smaller size engine & the rpm peak would be in the 7k range. 😉 The $10k TFS 265cc head package used on a 418 would have a 8k peak. Same as MBE.

 

I need to run the hard #'s and see if just sleeving my spare LS2 block or buying a sleeved block from TxSpd may actually be cheaper than investing in the small bore heads. Sounds stupid, but I have a bunch of 8452 LS7 heads, may as well use them. You can go 4.065 bore on an iron block, but not all can handle it. Really need to sonic check it to be sure.

BTW, Scott-waiting to see the results of the 429. I saw another 4.040/4.00 iron block w/ FED M311's go out the door today. Hyd roller/12:1/single plane, was supposed to put up 700hp. IDK, I'm not sold on those heads.

 

I need to run the hard #'s and see if just sleeving my spare LS2 block or buying a sleeved block from TxSpd may actually be cheaper than investing in the small bore heads. Sounds stupid, but I have a bunch of 8452 LS7 heads, may as well use them. You can go 4.065 bore on an iron block, but not all can handle it. Really need to sonic check it to be sure.

BTW, Scott-waiting to see the results of the 429. I saw another 4.040/4.00 iron block w/ FED M311's go out the door today. Hyd roller/12:1/single plane, was supposed to put up 700hp. IDK, I'm not sold on those heads.

Still working on the tune. Had to start from scratch and I'm a complete EFI rookie so it's taking some time. Hopefully Monday we'll have a fuel table that actually lets us do a pull. 🤦‍♂️

 

Dave you should have bought those nascar ls7 heads that i'm running. $1400 the pair with all titanium valves was a bargain. Looks like he's sold them all last time i looked. My set were ready to run as is even with the PSI springs everything checked out perfect I didn't need to change anything on them. And you could have sent one head to T&D and had the rockers made to make sure the rockers were done correct. You would have been at 3k total cost and had a killer set of 4" bore heads. I haven't proven mine yet but i can already tell it's too powerful for a typical 6.0 ls, 1st gear on the street wheelspinning badly it manages to lift the entire nose of the car like never before all through 1st, and the top of 2nd gear shift at 8000rpm without dropping off. Feels like it's boosted versus previous engine. I was going to get back into finishing the car and then they locked my state down again couldn't go more than 5km's and it just reopened again recently i'm getting tired of this nanny state BS. From what i can see you guys in USA and especially florida, texas etc you don't know how good you've got it.

Back to 429 LS on dyno.... it should have Brodix BR7's on it. They're already proven 800hp pump gas. Or put cathedrals on it and make 100hp less.

 

Scott, thought you were dyno'ing yesterday? Results??

 

2011

WarHawk SBC 481cid 798 HP 10.8:1CR Pump Gas Street Engine - MaxRaceSoftware MotorSports Forum

 

Dark we haven't really done much with LS stuff in 5 yrs. Bunch of factors and figured 800hp top end packages were doing pretty good for these pump gas deals.

Our BN7 heads go 420 at .650. The biulds of our in this thread are GM shortblocks Z06 427s. I don't recall 8f they even took Pat's motor apart. That's the black vette that is posted.

Would really like to put one of these Z06 in a early Nova with a bit of chassis work as these stock suspension Vette's just don't ET. MPH like crazy but we just can't 60 ft with big wheel/brake combo.

 

BBF we've charted that one. It's a few of LS folks Who Wonder around from SpeedTalk, Ls1tech/sales and Here.....and We've got So Many good builds to Reference from & this one's Another. I remember telling this guy on Speedtalk: CGT with the Ls build, that what he has Was a over Thought ER "it Kinda Shocked me" Build thread. In the End it performed as I said/thought (also he didn't like me Saying that what he had was a Hydraulic roller Variant of....😉 Being Messy on Speedtalk.
Can't Wait for the REC again! Eric and myself Had a Few 😠😡🤬.
😢=🤣😂

Scott's Engine falls somewhere around this one's peak but with Less TB & Cam LIFT. Think Scott has more Duration & for sure Compression. Didn't want to Use the Straub YB build thread of the 434 in this Thread.
🤣
No Harm no Foul/ nor 🖕 up the thread.

The 830HP pump gas 434 that could - LS1TECH - Camaro and Firebird Forum Discussion

Generation IV Internal Engine - The 830HP pump gas 434 that could - I've seen a number of new builds hit the page so figured I'd reshare mine. Perhaps it will help shed some light on what's possible with decent parts and an experienced engine builder. Crazy thing is the builder feels like we can...

ls1tech.com

NPS...
I've told Scott my Thoughts....I Want Someone Too Digitally Copy that 260 LS7 TFS Port and Place it into the Brodix Big Spring Casting with a few Tweaks. Universal head For All.

Big or Small bore...
Scott's Not a Copier 👍 but I am & cost would be around $3500- $4k'ish. 🤔 Just by TFS heads add bowl + SSR work and I'd have one of the Baddest heads on the Block.....Besides trying to add a 2.220 - 2.230 valve + angle mill 🙃 to around 11 degrees. Only thing I couldn't do with the TFS 260 head is Raise the Port like Many of these Newer Ls7's have done in the FED F series', CID, Brodix castings Ported by others....Had the same Brodix idea but the initial 🤔 of $4k and all the Work needed is Out of Mind out of 😔. 260cc is Small if using the Same Runner port Length of the Factory Ls7 and TFS heads with a little work Flows 400+ more like 408-410's with Just Bowl and SSR Work. Mamo sells a $10k head package that does this. I can Out think that with Shaft mounted Rockers not YT rockers of all things. I said this before on Mamo's Hand job and his 265cc TFS 410 cfm Head.

Thoughts on Trick Flow GenX 260 Cylinder Heads or PRC LS7x heads from TSP - LS1TECH - Camaro and Firebird Forum Discussion

Generation IV Internal Engine - Thoughts on Trick Flow GenX 260 Cylinder Heads or PRC LS7x heads from TSP - Anyone run these heads? What are your thoughts?? I?ll be running a BTR stage 3 LS7 NA cam. Trick Flow GenX 260 TFS-3271T004-C01 6 Bolt head for GM LS7 These are .600 lift flow 375/249...

ls1tech.com

 

One could have the ports raised some like Eric did and Darin calls the "Maxx Port Edition vol. 1" .
But that 💩 Cost Money.. 🤣😂

 

🦊 that's the Reason I love YB....a few have Gone to a better place. But there's No Place in the 🌎 better than.


Professionals with Experience. I just pick up the crumb afterthoughts of Hp made and use it...

I see the like ...I'll return the like and a question of let's see some Hp with that thang..😆

 

Wish I could have gotten results on this engine I did a few years back; 438 LSX deal with Mast Black Label heads. Customer ended up selling before it was completed.