[Ray Cruz]

are you happy with the torque convertor???? it looks way too tight to me.. you drop a ton of rpm on the shift and do not pick up much rpm at all in high gear

That was my exact point as well and he spanked me for mentioning it (see first page) That torque converter isn't doing him any favors. It can be made to work but it will be a lot more work than necessary to get there.
A lot of good advice in this thread.... I like the car OP... good luck!

 

[fofo]

It was designed for 3 stages, by Coan, & about 400 more HP than in the run the graph is showing. Yes, I think it will be pretty close, when we get the 3rd system 36n24f on. It should go 1:1 (ERPM & DRPM)with zero slippage by close to the 1/8 with the application of that additional power, & the current 4.29 rear gear, 1.80 1st gear & 33x10.5Wx16 MTs. The 1-2 shift efficiency should see further improvement with more power. With the slowpokey de-tuned 154 MPH on 2 stages taking out a lot of power, it was only slipping 4% at the 1/8. I HOPE to pick up 25 MPH with the 3rd stage on. This Fulton engine was made to spray about 750 HP to be efficient, & the 2 stages I have on now might be making 350 HP. Note also that our tracks around here are not SGMP, Holly Springs, & the like, & we need to "tip toe" off the starting line...reality. Thanks for the comment.

 

[fofo]

Ray, I certainly did not mean to "spank" you...LOL.

 

[Ray Cruz]

It was designed for 3 stages, by Coan, & about 400 more HP than in the run the graph is showing. Yes, I think it will be pretty close, when we get the 3rd system 36n24f on. It should go 1:1 (ERPM & DRPM)with zero slippage by close to the 1/8 with the application of that additional power, & the current 4.29 rear gear, 1.80 1st gear & 33x10.5Wx16 MTs. The 1-2 shift efficiency should see further improvement with more power. With the slowpokey de-tuned 154 MPH on 2 stages taking out a lot of power, it was only slipping 4% at the 1/8. I HOPE to pick up 25 MPH with the 3rd stage on. This Fulton engine was made to spray about 750 HP to be efficient, & the 2 stages I have on now might be making 350 HP. Note also that our tracks around here are not SGMP, Holly Springs, & the like, & we need to "tip toe" off the starting line...reality. Thanks for the comment.

This is a lot to type, I'll try to hit the high spots... but the reason it will go 1:1 E/D is becuase it is not allowing to the engine to rev up. The allure to spragless converters is that they have less moving parts (no sprag or diode) but they are actually hydraulic brakes that hurt performance... In a spragged or diode converter once the turbine and pump get going a certain speed (relative to each other)the stator will start spinning to "get out of the way" and let fluid flow through it, a spragless won't because the stator is locked mechanically. So where a conventional tq converter will show slip, that's actually a better (within reason) than than 1:1 on a spragless because the slip is the engine not being held down hydraulically. Modern converters have come a long long way in durability with diodes to where a spragless in my opinion is really a thing of the past.

I realize that does not address your original question, but a converter change as a whole will. Again, this is just my .02.

 

[fofo]

Ray, I appreciate the comments. Your expertise is way above my head. I concentrate on paying the bills, tuning the n20, letting go of the button on time, & keeping the car straight down track...LOL. Let us apply more power via the 3rd stage, & see what results that will show. Talking with Coan, & going to 4.29 rear gear about a year ago, they feel we should see more efficiency with the 3rd stage power. I cannot go to a lower gear than the 4.29, given the 33 tall tire, because we do run some NHRA 1/4 mile events, & I am crossing @ 203 at about 8200 ERPM, with the DRPM about 8300!

 

[offroadr]

It was designed for 3 stages, by Coan, & about 400 more HP than in the run the graph is showing. Yes, I think it will be pretty close, when we get the 3rd system 36n24f on.

This Fulton engine was made to spray about 750 HP to be efficient, & the 2 stages I have on now might be making 350 HP. Note also that our tracks around here are not SGMP, Holly Springs, & the like, & we need to "tip toe" off the starting line...reality. Thanks for the comment.

See what you did there? Someone told you the converter was wrong and you 'spanked' then and then are basically are admitting its wrong by saying it was made for X HP but because of my tracks I can't get to X HP.

Maybe you need another converter that works with a smaller NOS tune at your hot tracks and use the big boy tune/ Coan for SMGP type tracks?

 

[David.Powell]

fofo I understand the convertor was made for more nitrous but you asked how to get that graph cleaner and that convertor is killing that graph... the car does not accelerate in low gear because the convertor is dragging it down and on the shift it will not let the engine recover.... change the convertor and on that same tune up you could go low 4.50's and with a bigger hit a good convertor will be only faster

 

[fofo]

Guys, move on from the Converter. If after spraying the 3rd stage, the results are not what I expect, I will talk to Coan to adjust the Converter. I am not buyng another Converter, & this one will have to work. I operate on a Budget.

The tight Converter helps launch the car on our slick tracks, as it contains the RPMs. I am not trying ti recreate the wheel, but rather tryign to "clean up" an already decent 60'. After that is done, the focus will be to effectively apply the 3rd stage. The car has been 4.50s with this exact tune in better air. I am expecting a lot more with the 3rd stage.

 

[David.Powell]

you got it..... good luck

 

[JL Performance]

Another thought, and this is isn't a cheap one, but have you thought about a 3 speed? You have what a 1.8 glide in the car now? I'd be curious to see if the car would respond well to a 1.97 or possibly a 2.1 first 3 speed..... just a thought.

 

[ty_ty13]

needs more timing with the 1st kit..... i dont even worry about how high my timing is until about the 330'

turn on the 1st kit at the release of the brake and make it work by manipulating the timing. it takes a little bit for the nitrous to get through the lines so when you turn on the kit i usually wait atleast .2 seconds before i even pull any timing for the kit.... and usually dont pull the full amount for that kit until atleast .5 after the kit is flipped on.

dont worry about what your timing numbers are until half track.... just give it what it needs to make it smooth.

 

[fofo]

^^^ Yep. That would nut up the initial hit. We have 5* pulled with .20 On Delay, I can go to .30 On Delay & take out 4*, & just add the timing retard back to the to the 2nd stage. That, & the 2nd kit coming on sooner with .30 On Delay, should effectively add some nuts at the hit, & for about .40 seconds. This is where the combo needs more power. I am not expecting this to totally remove the DRPM check, but it should improve the ACC, & that is what I am focusing on...smooth. Of course, if track conditions are worse than before, we will likely lose the tire, but it least we have a tuning parameter to work with.

Thanks.

 

[E.R. Racing]

Needs more power early. Do you have a different gearset for the trans? I would like to see something numerically lower. That'll also free up the converter on the hit and let you add power.

 

[ty_ty13]

^^^ Yep. That would nut up the initial hit. We have 5* pulled with .20 On Delay, I can go to .30 On Delay & take out 4*, & just add the timing retard back to the to the 2nd stage. That, & the 2nd kit coming on sooner with .30 On Delay, should effectively add some nuts at the hit, & for about .40 seconds. This is where the combo needs more power. I am not expecting this to totally remove the DRPM check, but it should improve the ACC, & that is what I am focusing on...smooth. Of course, if track conditions are worse than before, we will likely lose the tire, but it least we have a tuning parameter to work with.

Thanks.

leaving with the 1st kit with no delay and with correct timing management it'll take that check out of the graph.... you may find it'll end up looking like this
time retard
.1 0
.2 0
.3 3
.4 8
.5 7
.6 6


gotta get the initial hit hard then get it under control with the timing then slowly put timing back in.

 

[Monte Smith]

You keep talking about "tip toeing" on these hot tracks. That's the problem, you have it in your head it won't go without a boatload of power pulled out because it is not a flypaper track. Since you have had this car, it has relentlessly STUCK the tire. Hit the Mfer with some damn power so that it will get on the tire early and it will go down the track. Every graph you have ever showed us with the tire "out of control" as you say, was AFTER it stuck the tire

 

[fofo]

^^^ You are right, Monte, & thank you for your thoughts. We should be back out in another 2-3 weeks. I have to have some work done to the Trailer, & this hot azz weather with rain everyday, sucks.

Ty, thanks for sharing.

ER, we have two tranny's, & both are Glides with 1.80 1st gear. We ran a 1.69 for a while, & the car prefers the lower 1.80, & initial wheel speed.

 

[JL Performance]

No thought on a 3 speed, with say the 1.95/1.34 or the 2.0/1.34 headsets?

If the car likes wheel speed I would think this change would work well to your advantage.

Montes right about hitting it sooner. Try the timing stuff first and try turning #2 on sooner, first with no delay at all. If those both work out I 1/2 wonder if leaving on your big power kit may be a worth while shot as well. Then the 36 pill fogger on at the hit.... See what that gets you.

If the motor wants that kit on maybe that one should be turned on first...

One of the cars I help out with fought this issue and believe me when I say track prep at some of the tracks up this way can vary a lot, we used to try to bring stuff in slow and easy and it never ran right, until he got a data logger in it and we saw 2 things, top end converter slippage was terrible, which a converter adjustment fixed, and the car would do a similar bog right after the initial launch. Driver could feel it, and thought it was stumbling as the first kit came on, so he thought. Not the case, it was bogging from the tire hooking. Once this was found and the timing was put back in and the delays taken out, and the bigger stage became the primary car went from an eh it goes ok to a wtf is in the car it's moving situation. N/t car and it's still not fast like what you have fofo but the results and what worked may still apply.

 

[fofo]

^^^ I think you are right about the tranny gearing & a 3 speed, but we have to work with what we have now (2 fresh 1.80 Glides). No budget for another tranny. I just finished spending $15,000 on the car froma wreck last October, with new front cap & components, all new paint job, all new Leash & wiring, lowered the car, sterring wheel mounted parachute release button,painting the golf cart, freshening both trannys, race team shirts, etc. etc.

 

[fofo]

I did not mention this with all of the other info I gave to introduce the thread...

The WBs are set very low at 5" Driver & 4 1/2" Passenger, & on this run the car hit the Passenger WB hard, & stayed on it carrying the car about 4" or so for about 100', perfectly straight. Could the check we are seeing early on indicate where the WB is smacking the track surface? I could set the bar s a bit lower, to assist in adding wheel speed, but I do not want to make too many changes at one time. I could leave the stagger the same since it is going straight, but go to 4 3/4" D & 4 1/4" P.

 

[JL Performance]

I would make the tuneup changes with the timing and turning on 2nd kit sooner, and initial kit immediately, if that doesn't do it then try lowering bars a 1/2 inch and see what that does to the graph.... Load sensor on the wheelie bar would tell all but that's more $$.

3 speed idea maybe something to consider over the offseason.