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need a budget NA ls motor build .... 650-700hp ?

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75K views 134 replies 26 participants last post by  DarkMatter  
#1 ·
whats a good budget recipe for a 650-700hp ls motor build ? if possible id like to keep it EFI {methanol if possible}

i know there was a thread somewhere on here about a guy making a ton of power with milling heads and just stock pistons/rods .

thanks
 
#2 ·
Cam and turbo....

N/A in my opinion you will be looking at quite a bit more coin.
Most people definition of budget is the less money the better and with the numbers you want I think a cam and turbo is going to be the cheapest.
 
#9 · (Edited)
on a 408 700hp is 1.71hp/cube
That's stout for a N/A small block, and to do that on a budget... I just can't see it happening..

I mean my customer bought the 6.0 block from another one of my customers, already had the main and head studs in it.. And was already 4.030 bore finished.. For $750.. It would have cost well over a grand to duplicate that..
Then he found some LSA heads on ls1tech.. $725 shipped...
That's as budget as it gets... Compstar crank and rods, diamond pistons, bullet cam, holley hi-ram, Holley EFI, not cheap things.
 
#11 ·
Well I know 3pedals who I good friends with used a junkyard 6.0L made into a carb set up with a msd box and a custom grind cam, and few other little things and he made that power. Go search his topics started.

His most recent one with a stock 6.0L turbo that produced 1067fwhp.

So 6.0L making 650 on a budget does exist.
 
#12 ·
Link below to 3pedals
This is what I'm gonna build but with EFI...


not too shabby for a JUNKYARD DOG
30Kmile LY6
850 Mighty Demon on a 1" open spacer, on a L92 VIC Jr( injector bosses removed from runners)
Edelbrock 1 3/4"-1 7/8" headers
head cut for 11.0:1 compression no real porting, just cleaned up
OEM pistons flycut .070"
Bret Bauer spec'd cam(236/262,110, .6xx, .625") and valvesprings, pushrods.
30K mile oem lifters
ARP head studs and rod bolts
moroso electric waterpump, no other acc.
98 Fbody pan, tray
93 octane pump gas
31* timing, verified with a pinned ATI damper and timing light
12.8 A/F
 
#14 ·
Link below to 3pedals
This is what I'm gonna build but with EFI...


not too shabby for a JUNKYARD DOG
30Kmile LY6
850 Mighty Demon on a 1" open spacer, on a L92 VIC Jr( injector bosses removed from runners)
Edelbrock 1 3/4"-1 7/8" headers
head cut for 11.0:1 compression no real porting, just cleaned up
OEM pistons flycut .070"
Bret Bauer spec'd cam(236/262,110, .6xx, .625") and valvesprings, pushrods.
30K mile oem lifters
ARP head studs and rod bolts
moroso electric waterpump, no other acc.
98 Fbody pan, tray
93 octane pump gas
31* timing, verified with a pinned ATI damper and timing light
12.8 A/F
why would you copy a combo that ate the valve train not long into it running..that combos was copied once also an didnt run no better then mid 10s..the old l92 notch back combo has been copied also an no ones ran 9s with that one either..the lift specs on the combo above was wrong..combo to copy would be bill fickleys deal that ed curtis did the cam to.. bills combo is .080 off the heads,fly cuts,950 carb,vic jr intake,2" spacer..contact ed curtis..if you get them in the 12.0-13-0 range you can get 650ish out them with basic bolt ons..

i have one with .100 off heads an .150 fly cuts to lq9 pistons for 12.5-1 comp an pump gas friendly
 
#13 ·
It can be done, but budget is relative. The whole trick to making big power on a budget w/ an LS is getting it to make big power w/ a stock-ish valvetrain and heads. An LS3 ported head is capable of the power, but needs .700 lift, not possible w/ stock rockers and the cheap rollers are nothing but trouble. Other option is go LS7 head and sleeved 5.3 block. I have a couple of pro-touring 6.0 builds just starting, may be mod-able to fit your requirements. DM me, I have a few ideas for you, but easier to talk. The typing kills me.
 
#16 ·
wiesco makes 4cc dome pistons for stock rods around $475 if you dont want to mill and fly cut..lq4s have a 6.6cc dish to them..if you port the heads then id swap up valve events depending on intake used also..the pump gas thing is off the cam,my dynamic is 8.6 on my deal..my cam is large for a rec port head if looked at lsa but its close with out fly cutting its a 239/255 dur,115 lsa + _ an set up to go 7800..i have about .050 clearance with my .150 fly cuts still so i have a 251-259 cam i speced but want to try my lil cam first.
 
#17 ·
I was gonna have a set 799 ported and valve work! Pistons totally agree with 4cc dome. Yes I have a large Bullet cam 800/798 lift on a 11:1 565 to run pump gas dynamic is 8.9 on it! It has a Holley Terminator X 4500 efi also. Looking forward to dipping over to the dark side of LS… 🤣
 
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#32 ·
LOL at BLUEOVALRACER liking your post.. typical of that incessant anti-LS lunatic.

You have something very wrong with your combination. Like i've said 100x times by now, many simple n/a 5.7's and 6.0's in cars your weight, have gone in the mid 11's EXTREMELY EASILY. Low 11's with a bit more effort, 10's with a bit more, and even 9's in the more gutted cars.

Year 2004..... 3700lb raceweight, sbe 5.7 ls1, CNC 5.3 heads, 230/230 590 cam, 11:1 pump gas.... 11.63 @ 119.xx mph. I've lost the vid i have of it at the drag strip making those passes but i uploaded it on ls1tech back then together with time slips, car backed those times up 3x same day, and that's why i have the "11 second club" title under my username on that forum because proof was needed to be listed on their 1/4 mile lists. So i'm not just repeating what others have done, i did it myself, 17 years ago. And i barely tried with that car, if i had progressed i could have gotten it to very low 11's, the tune wasn't even maxxed out i had it moderate and was high 11 afr's on those passes!, let alone suspension.

BLUEOVALNUTCASE can keep kidding himself that n/a LS's don't run.
 
#24 ·
I'm 3pedals, had to change my user name when I put a glide in my car, lol. My n/a combo still runs hard today. I fixed the issues that caused the valve tip damage, and the combo simply works.
Bret Bauer is the brains behind that cam, and the cam is the ONLY magic in that combo.
 
#26 ·
Thanks for the update bro I’m gonna do a few upgrades and have my heads ported. Cam looks to be the key all the way around…
 
#31 ·
zzracer on ls1tech.. He's been 10.20's with a n/a sbe ls2 @ 3400lbs, and only 11:1 cr. It's all in the total combination, how good the heads are, and camshaft.

quote: "Ls2 sbe, ported /shaved 799 heads, 236/242 cam, fast 102, 1 7/8 texas speed long tubes , custom y pipe with flowmaster 3" to 4 merge with a 4" bullet muffler. Performabuilt 60e, yank 4000 converter. 8.8 hybrid rearend with 4.11 gears on 28" et streets, vikings on all 4 corners, bmr extreme arb. I ported the heads and done all the work and Joncr96z does the tuning. 3400 plus Race weight yesterday scales were closed so don't know exactly. Thanks"

 
#50 ·
They gave us the recipe... I can Add 2 the Basic idea used for More HP.

I ask does your combination look to be better on Paper vs Either 6.0 or the 580 fwhp 5.7?




 
#51 ·
I dont know what power my 6.0 makes, but the et is in my sig, the weight is around 2800. Stock block,crank, heads castings, pistons with ls7 lifters. Only magic is my Cam.....but I bet its more than 600
 
#52 ·
Your my Reference for guys with More money invested in Bigger cubes or better Hardware on the ET..
🤫😉
 
#58 ·
The avg CFM numbers with a Good Ported Ls3 head using a .060 to .030 test bore is in the 360's on CFM... @ roughly .700 lift
 
#59 · (Edited)
Me Personally Greazygeo I would have had a Cam Motion, Straub, or Ed Curtis cam and Valve train.......they've done so many good ones...in terms of Hp or ET.

How about the 6.2 and my reference of Chris Frank ported stg1 heads on Ls1tech.... They Added a Cam Motion S/R.

1sick_eg


Post # 42 is Me as to not be called a Liar about me referencing Sic...also one of my Many Banned Ls1 accounts 🤣😏

 
#66 ·
I'd look at the ignition, which you may have already, but look again. Also the valve springs and geometry, again. Maybe have another third party shop look at it and just get an opinion. I dont think it's the cam. Are the heads ported? Have seen more people/shops fuck up LS3 heads than actually make them better and have seen lackluster results like yours from them. Carb needs to be huge on that combo, maybe a 950HP or so. If everything else is right, it'll breathe deep when it revs out.
 
#69 ·
It's been a long journey of checking, changing and confusion :)

Unfortunately most places nearby don't really mess with carbs, just efi and turbos. I'm pretty good at tuning carbs and car was setup for one so just stuck with it. Everything seems to be sound, but the one thing that has been on it the whole time is the 750HPHO AED. Also have the 850 Street HP and QFT 1050AN thought it would be worth a try. Good to hear you think the carb should be bigger.

The heads have not been ported. Only had them milled .045 and a valve job / freshen up since they were used when I got them. Maybe send them and the intake out and have them done over the winter.
 
#75 ·
You don't know plenty with an LS. If you did you wouldn't be stuck at still slower than what unopened 5.7 ls1 cars have 1/4 mile'd at your raceweight. Go back to the sbc if it worked for you. And i'm not being arrogant i'm being real, the LS just isn't for some people that don't understand it. If you had a sbc and it was working, go back to it.

The carb isn't going to magically pick that car up a whole 1 second in the 1/4 mile, which is where it should be. And i will still never run a #7 spark plug in a pump gas n/a ls. I have tr55 plugs in my 11:1cr ls2, runs like a champ, lots of timing, no detonation.

Maybe it's just me but i NEVER saw someone run colder than 5 plugs in a n/a pump gas 5.7 and 6.0 that et'd well.

Your car sounds flat even on the idle vids. There's definitely something off with the combo and it's probably a combination of things. It wouldn't even surprise me to swap your parts over to a good condition stock bottom end 6.0 straight from how GM made it, and it runs better.

What about the crank, was the crank messed with? the reluctor wheel wasn't changed/swapped over by any chance?

I don't like to mess with what GM made, the least as possible. My ls2 short motor when i bought it was a 58x reluctor and the entire short motor it was like new condition even the bearings. My ECU is 24x, and rather than me trust someone to swap over the reluctor wheel, i found a perfect low mile 24x crank and used that instead. Why? because i thought there's a chance if i get a so called "professional" to swap reluctor they might fit it wrong and the whole timing is out of wack. I also reused the gm original main bearings. Why? because they're also better than aftermarket.

Same goes for the cylinder walls. Did i bore my ls2 .005 like most of the sheep do because for whatever reason they're brainwashed you need a fresh bore/hone to make power? nope..I left it standard bore. GM bore and final hone is rounder and more true than what most machine shops will do. We're not dealing with 1970's cast iron engines here that are so old they need full machine shop work.

There's a reason so many SBE ls cars, are so fast. Mine seems to run hard with JE fsr pistons but again i left it standard bore.

What about the converter? it could be no good for the combination. Some people have tried 5 different converters before they get it right. I wanted a new 8" converter for my ls2 and i bought an 8" spragless converter used out of a car that had run an 8.9 second 1/4, n/a, engine dynoed 800hp. The converter was already proven to me that it's efficient enough to ET what it should ET, so i bought it knowing it is going to work and just stall a little less in my car because i'm making less torque than he had. But i trusted it, because it had already proven that it works well.

The people that just slap parts together and expect things to 1/4 mile like the good cars do, it doesn't always work out that way. And who are all these cam companies we've never seen run a quick n/a et in an LS? Back in the 2000's when n/a LS records were broken that still haven't been beaten.... there were FUTRAL (cam motion), THUNDER RACING (comp cams), ED CURTIS, LG MOTORSPORTS, probably not many others if any. GrannySSshifting also, his cars ran hard.

Mike does good cams? Where's a quick n/a LS 1/4 mile from one of his cams? I mean in these low 11 - to low 10 and high 9 second n/a LS cars, in the 5.7-6.2 engines. If someone can show me one, then i will say he does good cams.

I bought my custom comp cam 243/250 ( lsl lobes) from a guy with a stock stroke n/a ls3, it dynoed a legit 500rwhp, n/a. He only sold it to go a lot more radical turbo. This cam has a 108 LSA, just like many of the early-mid 2000's n/a LS record holder cams. The valve events are also very similar to the thunder racing t-rex, i think he must have copied it. If this cam hadn't come along when it did, i would have most probably contacted Ed Curtis for a cam. What's with all these 114 lsa LS cams lately and i don't even think i've seen one run a good 1/4 mile? Why are people reinventing the wheel?

Why do we need ongoing jabs of experimental mRNA poisons just to live, because some fuckwit sellout politician paid by a multi-billionaire with vested interests said so? The world has gone mad, n/a LS barely cracking 11's in 2021...... LMFAO. If you weren't on LS1TECH back in the early-mid 2000's to see LS cars run 9's n/a with big bore stock stroke junk... GeorgeC's car, then you had people like TomTheRoofer, Raughammer, Futral Motorsports had 408ci cars cranking out 700hp flywheel back then, Texas Speed running 9's with sbe n/a 5.7's, the list goes on, my own car was slapped together and 3700lb's and it ran 119mph n/a, a 5.7 ls1 in an IRS cambered wheel piece of shit Holden. Why, because the guy that did the heads (Absolute Speed) and the guy that did the cam (Futral Motorsports) knew WTF they were doing. They designed their parts by going to the track every week and testing it at the track to see what worked best. What do most parts sellers do nowdays?.. throw you a flow number or dyno number that looks impressive, and says pay me, i have the results. No you don't, you have numbers on a screen. Take it to the 1/4 mile and see what it does.

If you weren't around back then you might not understand that most of the world (not everyone) has collectively gotten more RETARDED since then, not progressed. A new C8 corvette runs low 11's... ok, ooh wow. Hot rodders did that (and then some) in the 1980's in the backyard with junk 1970s parts. Slapped together 440 mopars ran high 10's with a 509 hydraulic cam 30 years ago. But we're now so much smarter, because the billionaire zionist jew owned TV said so, while he works his hardest behind your back at making you dumber.

Nah buddy, you don't know plenty about the LS. You came on here asking for help because your built 6.0 was running 12's when others with similar parts are running mid 10's. You are trying to copy other LS n/a legends but you just don't know how to get the car to run hard, but they did and do. They are not internet myths. GeorgeC on ls1tech over 15 years ago wasn't an internet myth when his wheelstanding big bore stock stroke junk ran 9.9 1/4 n/a with ported GM cathedral heads and a fucking stock ls6 intake and ported stock TB and STOCK MAF !!!! Neither was Coleman Roddy running low 9's n/a with a 404ci LS. But but 2021... we need 105mm TB's and 420cfm heads with 330cc intake ports and china 4" cranks that flex like fuck under power, just to go 9's. Yeah that's why you also need a vaccine ongoing with booster shots just to live for a flu with a 99.8% survival rate, most of you have been dumbed down so much that the billionaire cabal of Bill Gates, Soros, and the Rothschilds can now rape you completely fucking blind, as opposed to just half.

What about this "internet myth" below .... nah, he had a fucking brain..... and he also used stock GM hydraulic lifters and stock rockers, lmfao at all the "we need $1000 bushed solid roller lifters to run hard n/a people", nope not with an LS you don't, GM gave us all a gift and most of you don't even know how to use it

A guy i know ran 11.4 1/4's, in a fucking pos holden commodore, 3500lb's, ls1 UNOPENED, Naturally aspirated. Stock cam and stock 241 heads. STOCK!. It happened. A lighter 4th gen, went 10.6's 1/4, n/a UNOPENED, stock cam & heads. I don't want to hear what the idiots at your local track run with n/a LS's these days, because many people have gotten dumber, and that's a fact. Many, but not all. GrannySSshifting who has run 9's in n/a ls3's offered you for you to take your car to him to dyno, so he can figure it out. You've probably spent 3x more that that on parts by now you didn't need, to go 1 tenth faster. Notice he doesn't post on here anymore, why would he bother, it's a lost cause.
 
#85 ·
Try to hit a few of your questions.

Yes a year ago I didn’t know much about LS stuff. Pretty easy to learn and Ive learned alot from you guys, so Thanks.

Plugs are fine...Ive known how to read plugs a long time.

Converter is new and much better than previous one. Is it 100% right? None of them ever are right? Haven’t sprayed it yet but picked up .2 in 60’. Launches at 5200 and falls back to 5800. Slip is about 7%. Seems decent enough.

Crank is 24X and is the original one, just bought reconditioned gen 4 rods (still original rod bolts) pistons and had it balanced. Nothing crazy. It has good compression and spins over easy enough.

I didn’t have a car or internet in 2000...into other things back then.

Cam isnt really any different than what Cam Motion recommended. Every cam is the wrong one anyway.

There are things I like about the LS, just would like to find my missing link. Hopefully the carb is it or part of it.

Ive read and listened to everything in the other thread you guys mentioned and tried the majority of it. Found some things and corrected them. Appreciate the help.