Neither one will make 750 without some porting. Not sure which head you are referring to as C3 is this the C302B ?

 

My reading tells me they had A3, then B3, then C3, C302 and C302b. These just say E3ZM-6049-C3, 1989 and 1990 casting #'s, but they are definitely cleveland not yates. They have the bowls blended and are still only 197cc. they are supposed to flow close to A3's with much better velocity but look like they have room for an experienced porter to tweak them. I'm making 610hp now on pump fuel with A3's and want to go to a similar set up as drag boss but wondering if C3's will make similar power at lower rpm

 

Yes he is talking about c302/b. You know my experience with A3s. I have a set of nos yates heads and matching victor intake 9.2. For sale 2200 shipped in usa. If interested. The advantage of the c302 were smaller runners for custom porting. Way better velocity than A3s. Have to spin A3 headed motor for sure. They had the same comb chamber and valvetrain as Cleveland.

 

The A3 head is too large in places and needs porting in others. They will meet your goals with the proper prep.


If the other head is the C302 variant, will take more work but produce a better finished product because you can design the port properly because it is small and has the material. It will not meet your goals without work.

 

Thanks, good to hear. In your opinion do you think the extra work on the C3's is worth it? How much lower rpm do you think the power would come in, I believe DragBoss is shifting at 7600 and crossing the line at 8200rpm, correct me if I'm wrong Tim. Would the increase in torque be significant?

 

My go to guy would be Chad Speier. He's good.

 

X2. Chad has a good rep and get the job done.

BTW, back hell early 2000's we set the B/D National record with 356 inch C302B motor. It made 780Hp+ back then. Fairly straight forward motor too.

Converted 2 bolt block, Hardblocked, Nodular crank, 6" Alum rods, Ross or Probe pistons, SR cam, C302B's with home made sheet metal intake and 2 750 BG carbs. But we RPM'ed it quite a bit. Jeff was always running C302's until he switched to Blue Thunder and Blown Alky.

 

O.K. good, I've seen his name here lots. Thanks again.

 

B/D stands for B/Dragster both NHRA and IHRA.

 

You set records in both nhra and ihra? Were you involved in building engines?

 

No we only ran IHRA. Just clarifying the B/D designation. It was my buddies car i helped with engine building and crew. He was the engine designer and I helped with the assembly.

 

Quite an accomplishment, congrats. Jeff who?
Do you think you were spinning high rpm's because of it only being 356 cubes or is that what the heads wanted? The reason I ask is because I have the A3 and C302 heads and I'm hoping the ported C302 will make the power at a lower rpm than the A3's. DragBoss is making 752hp with A3's but crossing line at 8200 rpm.
I build my own engines also and toploader but I'm definately not an engine builder, just street strip stuff and basically just clevelands. Cool talking to someone that was/is in IHRA, thanks.

 

Nova,
How many rpm’s is spinning it a bit?

 

Ok, really testing memory on the RPM's these motors turned. I believe the C3 headed motors were 9000+ deals. Will talk to Jeff and see if he recalls.

Jeff is Jeff Chatterson. Ended up with the worlds QUICKEST SB Ford. His home-built 375 with Blue Thunder 4.3 headed motor has run 3.83 in the 1/8.

He's been a good friend since the 80's. Helped and crewed alot on the N/A stuff. Not so much with the blown motors, but still some. He sold the SB Ford stuff last summer and has a TA hemi dragster and a AFuel injected Nitro dragster now. Plus driving a Top Fuel dragster as well. Still very smart with the Ckeveland Ford stuff though.

 

So B/D national record and QUICKEST SBF with "old" cleveland stuff, nice. I bet that 375 seen some high rpm also. Sounds like Jeff likes lots on his plate, is he on YB? Hard for me to find knowledgeable Cleveland people in my location. DragBoss has been a huge help. I guess if you guys were spinning the 780hp 356 to 9000rpm with stock block I shouldn't be too worried about touching 8000rpm once in a while. I did take a stock bottom end (rod bolts and TRW pistons) 358c to 8000 once on dyno, not smart, I know, searching for power.

 

Boss,
I still run a factory block, and only just swapped out factory crank I fitted in about 1995.
Offset ground to 3.70 stroke, wasn’t even a 4ma.
Turned it to 8800 for a long time b4 it started to get a bit stressed, but it never broke only turned a main brg.

 

That's good to hear. 8800rpm be sounding nice. Always heard the stock crank is fine, same with 2 bolt block. I dropped a valve at 7400 with 30 over 351c when young, bent rod, split cylinder wall etc but crank was fine, still have it. I have a 4" stroke crank now. What kind of power were you making. I think high hp is harder on the block than revs as far as cracking cylinder walls goes.

 

Boss,
Probably low 700’s.
I had 8 sleeves fitted and grout filled it to the head studs.
Also billet 4 bolt caps.
It’s all bandaids but, poor old thing was not designed for it.

 

NPS NOVA
was it a fontana block and 14/71

 

Ok, as O recall. When the White/Blue car '89 Gaddy chassis was a 2 bolt conversion block, c heads and 8 or 10 71 blower. I recall couldn't get a Fontana at the time or some other issue. Maybe the second motor in that car was Fontana blocked. I do recall there was a issue trying to get a second block? I think it was they wanted a solid block. Not sure.

As for blowers, i know the first few were Merts 8 or 10s. Not a 14 in the beginning. I know he had a couple Kobelkos and a K8 Superman. I think the last might have been a 14/71 as tge last blower on the car was some special Pro Mod deal.

 

Thanks, good info.
Nice power. I was wondering about sleeves. What sleeves did you use, not just normal sleeves I'm assuming. Bandaids are working for you. What heads?

 

Don’t know the brand of sleeves, they were fitted in 1995.
Block oringed also.
Originally had high port 4v’s but went to AFD 3v.
They saved a shit ton of weight too.

 

Sleeves installed normal, not furnace brazed like old days. You run that same block and sleeves since 95 man?
High port 4v's ? Factory cast iron ported?

 

Sleeves fitted cold, same since 95.
Yes high port 4v’s I made myself, by copying out of that old Cleveland book that came out in the 80’s.
Engine goes much better with the AFD’s, made by a guy who actually knows what he’s doing.

 

Right, high port exhaust, nice job. Yellow book, I have it, I think everybody that has a cleveland has it, lol. Same block since 1995 seeing 8800 rpm, that's one sticky bandaid.
Yes for sure on porting, I will be sending my C3's out, not doing myself.

 

had a small 362ci ex cup motor redid the cam shaft for it and that was about it, put a new piston in it but didnt change compression. Made 830 at like 8800 with c302b heads was a decent piece.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aT3pfpD-PyI


had a small 362ci ex cup motor redid the cam shaft for it and that was about it, put a new piston in it but didnt change compression. Made 830 at like 8800 with c302b heads was a decent piece.

Like I said earlier, it will always amaze me that people got that power out of those cubic inches. Do you think the high rpm is because of the smaller displacement or is that just what those heads wanted?

 

Kind of partial to A3s

 

Kind of partial to A3s

https://youtu.be/sSORL-t1bOM

Those A3's are junk! If anybody has any send me a PM and I'll get rid of them for you.

 

Colypso,
Do you know if those were c302b heads or yates c3 heads? Start of dyno says yates c3.

 

they were c302b the early heads was an old busch grand national motor. and everything was built around those cubic inches so the heads and the displacement are all part of the rpm

 

Dan Jones post in this thread has a lot of info on these heads in it .
https://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=541474

Pretty impressive heads considering these were cast 30 years ago . This is when nascar was still interesting racing .

 

Yes, Dan provides lots of accurate Cleveland info. Great to still see a following and several new heads and intakes being produced, and finally an available high hp block from Tim Meyer.

 

Curious if anyone knows anything about the A3 heads with casting # 6090 A3. Had a set a while ago but never found any info . I think they were proto type heads that had the exhaust bolt holes a bit closer together and maybe some other differences which i don't know. They were supposedly some first sets out of Roush's camp.

 

I had a set too, 6049 is another head number ford used. I had a set of the 6090 I think they are pre 6049 numbers. bolt spacing is 2.77 inch compared to later versions being 2.96. Nothing special other wise.

 

Just made 751 on this with the PC Cleveland head chad and I did. They're similar to a C302b but have a modern chamber.

 

Nice results stuska1, is this the motor you've been working on for yourself? If you don't mind sharing what's the cubic inch, CR, what rpm was the 751hp at, what was the TQ?