I've run E85 for a few years and over the winter removed the intercooler and am now running it W/O. After studying up on latent heat some more I decided it was unnecessary.

It picked up a couple # of boost and the performance is higher than before.
The first time out it flashed to 30# and the boat was about out of control. I had turn the boost down.

The IAT is before the injectors of course, I read the datalog and at 30# boost the IAT was at 229 degrees.
I turned it down to 21# and the IAT was at 201 degrees.
I didn't think those numbers were too bad but of course I have no way of telling what the actual number is after the fuel vaporizes.

I run the WOT tune at close to the rich best torque # to get all the cooling I can. .72 lambda

Over the winter I also picked up a set of 225# Atomizer injectors and I feel that improved overall performance too over the previous 160# injectors.

 

I also run a 418W with an 88mm turbo using the FAST XFI on E85...no intercooler.

Don't get freaked out about the inlet temps, the fuel has such a huge tuning window....now that I have switched....I would never go back. I love e85 and have ran over 20psi with no issues. I have also screwed up and leaned the car out to the point that it should have lifted a gasket, but since the E85 is so forgiving it was fine.

E85 is very close to Alcohol for latent of heat......and its working for David Wolfe to make 3500hp with no intercooler.

 

nice... something I need to think about...

 

Thanks fells for the insite...I am glad to see people testing the limits of e85...I intend on running a twin setup and if I can get away with less tubing and weight off the front of the car it will be beneficial...I will be sure to update this thread and I get closer with my setup.

Jeremy

 

In Top Alcohol funny car an Ethanol car held the title for 5 years.
It competed heads up with methanol cars so it does the job.

http://www.ihra.com/profile/funnycar/mark_thomas.html

 

Any more thoughts on this? anyone running into issues non-intercooled on E85?

 

The reason it works better on blow thru is the difference in the time it spends in the intake tract compared to efi.

Think about the distance difference between a blowthrough and efi engine from the introduction point of the fuel to the chamber.

Couple injectors up by.the throttle body would make the temp drop.equal to what a blowthru can do.

 

Not e85 but E98 non-intercooled, we have went to 40psi at 10:1 compression with no ill affects at all. Just a lot of clean power with EFI! We shoot for .68-.7 lambda at this level.

 

What kind of IAT's were you seeing? Tubo? Intake/TB setup? Thank you.

 

i have been pondering a scheme, tell me if you guys think it will work. run a hose from the pressuer side of the fuel regulator to a nitrous(fuel) solenoid feeding a meth nozzle. have the noid open under boost. this way the e85 will have some time to pull heat out. very little weight added to car. will the pressure from the fuel system be enough to make a meth nozzle work?

 

Interested in this exact setup and this is the only information I could find. Has anyone done this?

 

Quick it might if it was a super small nozzle.... The better bet would be a couple injectors with a stand alone controller like sdsefi sells. Then youd have adjustment capability.

 

I have the stock injectors from my ls engine. Will those work for what you listed above? I think they are 24lb, how many should I use to cool things down? If they are mounted further away do the temps drop more?

The efi system Im using can do staged injectors so that shouldnt be an issue

The reason i asked about the meth nozzle is I setup a "snow" kit on a buddys car and the nozzle made a prefectly atomized cone, most injectors are more of a stream than a cone, from what I've witnessed.

I have most all the parts to go either way just deciding on which way to go. I was kinda wanting to try the meth nozzles for simplicitys (sp??) sake but unsure what pressure is required to make them work

 

Most of those meth pumps are capable of 150-200 psi. Double to triple of your fuel system. If your ecu has that capability youre golden. Just buy the stands drom SDS and use -6 line to connect em. E85 weighs 7.45 to 7.55 lb per gallon so a 24 lb injector would equal a 3.2 gph nozzle at 100 percent duty cycle.

 

My next question is how many injectors will i need to use and is just in front of the TB ok?

twin s366 turbos, dont know how much heat these put into the air. plan on keeping it pretty mild this year to get a handle on the tune up, then get serious with it in a another year or so. 750whp now, 1200whp in future

 

What intake manifold setup?

 

right now i have an ls2 intake.

 

Id go 12-16 inches in front of the TB and put 1 of the sds stands on each side of the pipe.

Are the LS guys having any pudddling problems running alot of fluid through the intake? obviously it was designed as a dry flow piece.

I havent heard of any but my ear isnt to the ground onthe meth spraying LS crowd. Check into that first.

 

I dont know about puddling, ill look into it. My first lsx build, Thanks for the help!

 

I have a 377 with EFI and a s475 and no inter-cooler. Intake temps are @ 170ish at the stripe at 13 pounds of boost. looking to put an air to water on this winter so I can up the boost. why would you take the inter-cooler off? I would think the 200plus degree temps would lose hp as well as push the limits of E85. What am I missing? looking to learn somthing.

It is a street car that runs 9.4s at 143+ on a soft tune so far.

 

What does the car weight? 143mph on 13PSI is huge MPH for that boost level using an S475.

 

Sorry to dredge up an old topic. I'm in the planning stages of a 390" sbf with a 94mm, shooting for around 12-1300hp. I'm figuring I'm going to have to spin it a bit to get there, and wondering if RPM has an influence on being able to run non-intercooled. If 5-6" of intake length plays a part, I would figure the time difference between 6500-8k probably would as well.

 

Does anybody have any links to E85 timing and AFR tunes they don't mind sharing?

 

anyone have power figures before and after ditching the IC? we are looking to get rid of the IC curious how much loss/gain of power people have seen.

 

Are you talking on Ethanol or Methanol?

 

I'm seriously interested in this discussion as well. Building a 408w powered mustang street car with a pair of 6766's on e85. I've been on the fence on wether or not to run a A/w setup or injection.

 

The car has to be able to run 5.40s or quicker 1/8th miles at 3300lbs with intercooler or 3150lbs without

 

The car has to be able to run 5.40s or quicker 1/8th miles at 3300lbs with intercooler or 3150lbs without. My current setup is with an Air-to-water with 160lb injectors with 8-10 psi running 6.00s in the 1/8 at 115-120 mph with 110 octane fuel. Can push it to 25 psi With current fuel and should take me from the 700hp range at now to the 1000+ range but if can ditch the intercooler I can drop 150lbs on the car in the class rules so will help out a great deal. If nothing else if keep the intercooler how much hp and tq gain is it to go to E85 roughly if know. Thanks!

 

Just called Wolf Racing and they said they have never run E85 in their turbo car. Methanol is what they run with no intercooler. No intercooler was not recomended at high boost but they do not have experience with E85 so no real recommendations on it.

 

Bump...
I have tight space on my new build and am thinking of ditching the air to water intercooler. Not having to chase ice down, draining/filling, and the extra weight would be a plus. Car will be running E85, BS3 and around 25# - 30#. Thinking of running methanol on the inlet pipe, but then started thinking why not pull out a couple pounds of boost and run a 50 shot of nitrous. Should provide plenty of cooling and jump the tq up. Thoughts?

 

Mark55 is only guy I know that ran with and without an A/W IC on his BBC Twin Turbo Drag Boat. He would be the best person to contact about this.

I can only speak in terms of my car.....which is most street car..but I run a 418 with an mid sized 88mm S400 and it makes great power. In a 3500lb car it runs just shy of 150mph on a 17" tire only seeing 20PSI. The inlets are freaking as it pegs the IAT sensor at 255 within 2 seconds of WOT.

This was my 3rd season running the car with no IC on E85 and have had no issues.

 

If you peg an IAT sensor at 255* just 2 seconds into a run, I am no longer worried about 155* at the traps in the 8th.

Also, like someone said earlier about it measuring the IAT nowhere close to the intake valve. I wonder how much it does cool it on an EFI setup.