It damn sure won't hurt to prime it.

 

Fact. But no one likes to do things that aren't really necessary eh?

My friend (he is a lurker here I think) wrote this to me:

"No shit it won't hurt to prime it just like it won't hrut to prime a wet sump every time before start up. lol"

 

Doesnt matter how fast the pump builds pressure...dry start ups WILL happen. Depending on how radical the motor is, aggressive cams and stiff valve springs put alot of pressure on stuff...prime the damn thing. Hell, with a good pump you can reach down and turn the pulley by hand for 2 minutes and get at least some pressure/oil moved around.
Ive seen a few pushrods mushroomed over in the rocker cup because of dry start ups.

 

If he's got any type on money into the motor he ahould take the 2 minutes it takes to slide the belt off and prime the motor. We prime mine every time we get ready to be pushed up to the lanes

 

^^^^^This

 

I heated the oil and primed it every first start of the day with my dry sump circle track engines. If the oil wasn't warm and the pump hadn't circulated the hot oil, the engine was not started. Probably over kill, but I wasn't taking any chances with $25,000+ engines.

 

What about the 1000s of wet sump engines that get started all the time??

 

You have to admit, Dailey is a respected oil system specialist and has an impressive list of clients in the performance world.

I have seen no mention of tolerances and how that factors in... again, we all know LS and Porsche and others have dry sump and run many miles and years with no pre-lube. Anyone care to take a crack at explaining that being so different? Those Porsche motors are well over $20k and an LS7 is easily into the teens close to 20k as well when all said and done.



This a fair question and I have yet to get a good answer to this one.

That Peterson priming oil filter housing is a pretty cool piece.

 

Peterson Fluid Systems makes a remote oil filter mount with a primer built in. Pretty trick for any engine wet or dry sump.

 

Kinda want that just can't fathom getting it when I have a system that works.

 

I think coated bearings and piston skirts would highly reduce any risks from not priming....other than considering pushrod tip and babbit cam bearings with extream drag race valvespring pressure

 

Wouldn't where your tank is mounted have an effect on priming?If the tank is mount higher than the pump it stays primded.A lot of systems will bleed from the tank in to the motor when not running.

 

This ^^^ - I know on my setup, if it sits long enough the oil will run down into the pan, and when it does that I have to drain the oil and put it back into the tank in order to get the pump primed again. Pain in the butt, but if you don't do it the pump sucks air and won't return the oil back into the tank - gets air locked or something.

However once the tank is full and the air out of the system, it oils right away. Just depends on how long it sits.

 

I have a 5 stage Dailey with billet pan. The reason I prime my pump is because I want to get all the oil out of the pan so I can heat it before startup. Aluminum mountain motors are expensive and they can have tight clearances on some things so I want warm oil going to them on startup. In theory, a dry sump would be the only thing that wouldn't need priming because it has gravity flow to the pump for priming instead of having to suck it up from the pan.

 

Well his motor is an alum block and mine is not so his tolerances should be tighter than mine. Again, Dailey has assured him he does not need to do anything.... I just don't hear of or see anyone but Dailey out there recommending/endorsing this method. (No disrespect to Bill Dailey at all).

 

The closer to level the tank is to the pump the better prime the pump will keep. If the tanks above the pump, it will have a tendancy to drain through the pump and all the oil will end up in the pan after long term storage, in which case it will need to be re-primed before the next firing.

 

Thanks Pat.

So are you insinuating no need to prime if the tank is mounted level to the pump?

And if you were setting up a system, what part of the oil tank would you try to line up with the pump?

 

You'll still need to prime the engine if the tank is level. The engine will need to be primed regardless if it sits for an extended period of time, the feed line to the pump that supply's the oil to the pressure section should never be dry if the pickup fitting on the bottom of the oil tank is level or close to level with the pressure in fitting on the oil pump. You prime the engine to cover all moving parts in oil before start up, no real other reason. With the cost of nice engines these days chances are if its dry sumped its pretty serious, so what's 20 minutes of your time before start up to save on wear and tear.

That's just our philosophy at Peterson anyway, there's lots of ways to skin a cat.

 

You'll still need to prime the engine if the tank is level. The engine will need to be primed regardless if it sits for an extended period of time, the feed line to the pump that supply's the oil to the pressure section should never be dry if the pickup fitting on the bottom of the oil tank is level or close to level with the pressure in fitting on the oil pump. You prime the engine to cover all moving parts in oil before start up, no real other reason. With the cost of nice engines these days chances are if its dry sumped its pretty serious, so what's 20 minutes of your time before start up to save on wear and tear.

That's just our philosophy at Peterson anyway, there's lots of ways to skin a cat.

You say 20 minutes, others say less than a minute. That's quite a range of opinion on length of time of priming.

the more power you make ...the more important to get the oil to the top of the engine in a timley manner...........so if your makin 700hp on a NA V8......not that nessary......1600 on a squeezed motor better prime it and often.....

Interesting. So since I will be in the 700-800hp NA camp, you say it's not that necessary.

Does oil weight come into play? If ypu're running some 0W oil, I'm guessing you'd prime a bit longer to make sure you've got oil up top and to make an oil wedge at the bearings than if you ran 20W50. Or does weight even make a difference?

Good question. I believe I'll be running a 30 or 40 weight.

WHY AVOID doing the PRIME..
WHY TAKE A CHANCE EXCEPT BECAUSE YOU ARE LAZY....

there is no reason to taking a shortcut

use the advantage of being able to prime the oil system to your ADVANTAGE...to SAVE WEAR on pushrods and bearings....






i dunno why you even ask..

Lazy has nothing to do with it. Like I said, sorting through the different opinions on the matter. I am sure there are things you deem unnecessary and therefore you do not go. That is the point of this thread.

Thanks for all the replies and feedback. I find this subject very intriguing.

 

the more power you make ...the more important to get the oil to the top of the engine in a timley manner...........so if your makin 700hp on a NA V8......not that nessary......1600 on a squeezed motor better prime it and often.....

 

Does oil weight come into play? If ypu're running some 0W oil, I'm guessing you'd prime a bit longer to make sure you've got oil up top and to make an oil wedge at the bearings than if you ran 20W50. Or does weight even make a difference?

 

WHY AVOID doing the PRIME..
WHY TAKE A CHANCE EXCEPT BECAUSE YOU ARE LAZY....

there is no reason to taking a shortcut

use the advantage of being able to prime the oil system to your ADVANTAGE...to SAVE WEAR on pushrods and bearings....






i dunno why you even ask..

 

some setups may take more time to prime and it kinda also depends on where you are checking the oil pressure

most will want to at least push out all of the air in the otherwise dry system


this can take minutes if there is air in the pushrods ETC...
it takes as long as it takes

good practice will also entail a bump of the starter after a short time...
and then keep priming


just as like if it was a wet sump / access thru the removed distributor hole... it may take five minutes to get all the air out...


once again, it is only a LAZY reason to not prime a external pump...

 

Bumping the starter is a good piont.Aren't we kind of talking about two things here,one is the pump loseing primp because no oil in the pump,the second pumping up oil pressure in the motor.I know it's a good ideal to build oil pressure before you start it but there are about 1000 other things that are a good ideal too that only takes about 5 minutes.

 

I was exaggerating my point, what's 20 minutes of your time to preserve a 40,000-100,000 dollar investment. I can prime my car in about 10 minutes at the race track, be sure you set your belt up so that it comes off the pump easily but still has the correct tension. Set it up right off the engine stand and you'll never have to mess with it again.

 

Personally I don't see a need to reprime between rounds, but it certainly isn't a bad idea to do it after the car's been sitting overnight or if you see the fluid level drop down in the tank.

 

Kevin Fontenot (Milan 10.5 Gremlin) has a roller sprag on his pumps drive sprocket so he doesn't need to remove the belt to prime, very slick.

 

Damn sounds like a nice setup

 

/\ that or an oil accumulator are the best solutions. we primed prior to starting the first time the car was unloaded after a week of sitting (circle track), after that it made pressure immediately between practice, qualifying and race time..

 

yes 6T6

we did the same but mounted everything on a wagon and hooked it all up with jiffy-tites to be able to remove so that we did not have to carry the hunderd pounds extra on the race car...

 

freinds mountain motor nitrous car he would prime the motor after it sat all week before firing it up ( had a stud to slide a moroso electric motor on that drove the belt ) , then again the next morning , because of what he called drip down , and the bearings he felt would be dry . but once fired for the day , no repriming . before he congered up the stud mount it was a PIA as you had to hold the electric drill to drive the pump , now its slide the belt off the pump pulley ,slide the motor on the stud and place the belt on to drive it ( it uses a spare belt not the mandral belt to drive it )

 

Thanks everyone for the comments and discussion.