FWIW, that was a Westech dyno... lol

For best, most relevant responses, you might want to share:
The car's weight
The car's ET
The car's MPH
The car's 60ft
Converter
Transmission
Rear Gear
Dyno graph
Shift point
Tires

Has it been on a chassis dyno?

 

No chassis dyno. You really don't like westech.

I didnt share the car information because I will make change to the car per motor.

Car is around 2900# with drive and 15 gallons of fuel.
Car went a best of 10.81 at 124 mph with1.505 60 ft. DA was 2107. Leaving on the Trans brake at 4200. Shift point was 7500. If I shift at 7200, it slows down slightly. Best at 7200 shift point is 10.85.

The converter is a 8 inch built by Chris at Continental Converters. It goes to 5000 on the break. converter is on the tight side, I have not changed it yet because I may make changes to the motor. Plan was to put a plate on the car but after watching nitrous increase in price, I'm having second thoughts. So I'm strictly thinking NA at this point.

The transmission is a Mikes ultimate C4.

Rear end is a currie 9 inch with 4.11. Tires are 275/60/15 MT ET Street. I tried a 26 inch tall slick, and it didn't improve much.

 

That's a LOT of changes........

 

Which valvesprings are you running?




What are your goals for the car? There are several different directions you could take, depending on what you want to do with it and how much you want to spend. I run a 10.2:1 347 with a 248/258 .608"/114* hyd roller, old style high ports, victor jr, been 10.8 at 125.


A buddy of mine runs the same short block with patriot 185 heads, funnel web, and a street roller camshaft in his car, one size smaller than yours. He was running 953 comp springs, car was going 10.8's at 126. Sent trans to liberty, switched to 954 springs, rocker girdle, ti retainers, 10.4s at 130mph. Shifts it 7400 or so.


Skip to 1:55 in the vid.

 

Springs are 953 installed at 1.900

My goals are to go faster, but keep things reasonable. I drive the car to the track (40 miles one way) and drive it around town. Basically I'm trying to sort out my combo. Based off what others have done with simular set ups, I can but think something could be improved in the motor. I know the converter will pick it up some, but not that much. I've had a few conversations with Chris about the converter and only after testing has he thought that maybe more stall will help. But he doesn't think it's going to put me were it should be.

As far as cost, it really depends on the benefit. Probably won't put a different piston in it. I was more thinking cam shaft. Changing intake, more intake work.

 

I would try a 954 spring with a 1.7 rocker on your existing cam, or if you want another cam, something near .700 net lift and in the 260/268 range (give or take) on 108 or 110 would run well, however the drivability wont be what it is with your current cam setup. A cam like that would need a 917 or 919 spring depending on installed height.

 

I agree with what Mike is saying. The car in my vid put down 448 uncorrected to the tire, weighs 2750 with driver. It is not uncommon to see some dyno's reading a bit higher than others.


Also, not all calculators are 100% accurate. Some combinations will be off in ET/MPH based on the dyno numbers they produced. My car put down 425 at the tire and I weigh 2900-2950 depending on if I use my stock seats, and if I run the exhaust.

 

Trust me, if I saw a glaring mismatch in your combo, I would be the first to say something. Based on the specs in your first post, it should make plenty of steam... as I don't see anything really out of place. The only thing that might need addressed that you said, is the intake. You might try a port matched Super Victor and see what it does. Don't see it as a major cork, though.

But, as far as what the car SHOULD run, I'd look into the things I mentioned in my last post...
What is the exhaust like in the car compared to the dyno headers at Westech? Headers? Is there an overlap at the flange? What exhaust is on the car behind the headers? If it has an exhaust, have you tried uncapping it? Is the throttle verified to be opening all the way? Is the ignition strong, and has a good coil? Is the fuel system keeping up? (Do you have a fuel pressure gauge you can read as the car is going down track?)

Have you checked these things? I'm REALLY curious about the exhaust. If you don't have a good port match at the flange, undersized headers, and ESPECIALLY insufficient exhaust behind the headers, it can kill it. You need at least 1-3/4" headers with zero overhang at the flange going into mandrel bent 3" pipes with minimal turns emptying into "see through" mufflers like Ultraflows, and dumping in front of the rear axle. If you have a STREET friendly exhaust on the car, try uncapping it, and see what that does for power. Could make a HUGE difference. With 3-bolt collectors, I use to just unbolt it, then move it to the side and stick one bolt in the side to hold it. Could also try some of these suggestions on a chassis dyno.

Good Luck!

 

I really do appreciate all the help you have given, in all my threads. And have checked things. The headers match the port fairly close. And are a little better match than what was used on the dyno. And I've tested with and without the exhaust. There was no improvement. So I don't think it's an exhaust issue. Unless it's the headers. They are the crites falcon headers. Same as the Mad Dog headers.

 

I understand that the dyno said 576, and the track says 450. My question is why? If the motor is not running to were it should/ could run then changes need to be made. That's the reason for this post.

I want to start at the motor and then make the changes to the converter and gears as needed.

I figured if I put my combo out there to you smarter than I people. Then suggestions could be made. If people came back and said I think your motor combo is great, then I will leave the combo alone and move forward.

 

Car is either heavier than you think or somebody pulled a plug wire.

Trying to figure out why it didn't pick up when you turned it harder.

 

Putting ideas out there. If I advanced the cam. It should give a little more bottom end, which may help. Any thoughts...

 

Are the 3.5" collectors removable? If so, and you're just going into 3" pipe, anyway... I'd use 3" collectors... as that's all the engine needs, anyway. The up and down sizing doesn't really help anything, and 3.5" is too big for the car, anyway.

The cam should be advanced 2-4 degrees. Is there no advance ground into the cam? Check to make sure, first. If the part number has a +4 in it, then it is ground advanced. If not, I'd go ahead and bump it up four degrees.

Good Luck!

 

Consider a thinner ring package with spacers if need be along with a vacuum pump. Cylinder heads checked over for improvements as well. Probably a better valve job will help them out. Oil pressure shows on the high side off dyno sheet so there may be some improvements there.

Really depends how much your willing to get after the thing.

 

What thickness of ring? The current ones are 1.5mm. I thought those were fairly thin.

Any suggestions on oil pressure? The pump is a standard pump with the higher spring. That dyno pull had 5w30 in it. I now run Rotella 10w30 synthetic. I would have to check but I think it goes to 80 or 90 at 7500.

 

What's your 60, 330, 660 numbers?


I've never seen an engine run what it should leaving 1000rpms below peak torque.

 

60 - 1.505
330 - 4.446
1/8 - 6.911
1000 - 9.003

 

Leaving higher didn't improve it any.

 

Shifting right around peak power? Advance the cam, peak is happening too late for 7200 shift points.

 

He said the converter flashes to 5k, which is around his torque peak... and shifts at 7500 rpm.
But, he also says the converter feels "tight", so...

 

Yeah?? 5K flash is nowhere enough for an engine turning @ 7200 - 7500


So, advance the cam and shift below 7K.. or consider another stall that flashes up around 6K if you have the money.

 

is that a solid or hyd. roller

 

It's a solid. The ramp rate is just not agressive.

 

I will check my specs when I get home mine is a fti ed Curtis solid roller for light nitrous use.and is close to 700 lift.

 

Brace yourself.....(lol...just kidding...kinda)

We've talked before. I'm also not a fan of the dyno you ran it on because it just doesn't add up.
3 weeks ago I went 10.19 @135 at 2950 lbs (I had all my weights in the car). That was also 2,500' DA air according to my Performaire analyzer.
The next day I went 10.001 at 135.5 at 2820lbs at 2,700' DA

You're running 10.80's at 124 at similar weight. SOMETHING DOESN'T ADD UP!

What Carb do you run anyway?

I like the 225 heads, talking with Mike he's mentioned there are a few good tweaks that can be done. Maybe consider them?
As for the intake side, I'd like to see a ported super victor on there, and a 900cfm Carb

For the cam, go custom...why not maximize things?

And send your converter to Lenny.....his converters kick ass.

 

Lou, I'd like to note this is all your fault. Being our motors specs and car specs are fairly close. I should be a little slower than you, but not almost a full second.

My personal opinion of the dyno is it's not that far off. Being how close our motors are spec wise and how close our # are. Or it was just a good guess on the dyno to be so close. Now with that said something is not happy.

There are so many things going on that's I need to start back at square 1 and just go over everything. I just want to make sure there's no glaring issues with the motor. Based on this tread there are little things that will help, which I think I'm going to try. I'm going to work on the intake and exhaust, I'm going to send the converter to get loosened and I'm going to have the trans freshened up.

I'm also going to check the ignition system to make sure there are no issue there.

The carb is a big venturi 950 holley. I tried the 750 hp that I have, but it slowed the car down.

 

LOL, I'll take the blame.

If you're pulling the engine out, maybe have it put on the dyno again?

 

Also, some might argue gearing, etc....but the MPH is big!

MPH & Weight are a direct indicator of power. We're 10mph difference so that means I'm WAY out powering you....and it shouldn't be that way.

 

I agree. I cant figure out what it going on. But to make things more complex, I went on a non prep day and the car would only run 11.17 at 117 mph. Same tune didn't lift went 1.53 60 ft. I thought I hurt it. Looked over everything. Everything looked good so I to it back to the track on a prep day. It went 10.86 at 123 mph.

I have been video recording gauges during my runs and nothing has changed. I pull the plugs (driving back to pit, I know, not a good reading) they look good.

 

Are you sure about the weight of the car? Has it actually been scaled? Lou (Shifter) gutted the shit out of his Fox body to get down to his race weight, and they are a LOT easier to lighten than an old Falcon. My old mustang weighs 3300 pounds with me in it, and I'm less than 180. Your car might be heavier than you think if you haven't had it on a reliable set of scales.

 

Something I started thinking about. I weighted it once and with it full of fuel it cam back 2620. I've made some changes to it do I'm guessing the car gained some weight. But I really should have it weighed again, maybe it's fatter than I think.... which would explain a lot.

 

The car was gutted. tabs and extra metal were removed. All the undercoating and bondo removed from the car. It has a fiberglass hood, front bumper and mounts. Brakes are willwood.

The factory curb weight is 2625, so with all the stuff removed/added it cant be too heavy.

 

You still need to put it on the scales. My registration says 2700 pounds... and when I put it on the scales, it was 3120! lol

You might be able to go to a recycler, dump or rock quarry... and ask them if they can weigh your car. Probably do it for $10. lol That's what I did!

Good Luck!

 

I stared looking for places around here last night. Only way to tell is to weight it again.

 

Sorry for the hijack but do early Mustangs have the door bars Mike? I have my '65 down to 3010 with me in it and want to rid that extra 10.


On another note, I think the Falcon is quit a bit heavier as well. Going off that MPH.

 

I haven't messed with mine, but looks like it...

 

FYI my engine made 502 hp on a Superflow and at 3010 lbs it traps at 124mph.

 

Upon a little further research, the original doors have a brace, but it isn't very heavy.
I think the picture in the post above is an aftermarket door with a bigger brace to make the thinner, lighter new door, feel more solid.

Below looks like an original one.

 

Thanks, doesn't look like it is worth messing with for the little bit lost