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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a question concerning A-body GM chassis's, with all the Dick Miller parts out there, anti-drag sway bars, 12/24 adj. shocks, air bags in the coil springs, no-hop bars and so on, which is the best for the best results, and here is where I am going with this topic.

The GM A-body like a Chevelle, has the GM style poor man's 4 link suspension, and with uca's on an up angle, and the lca's on an up angle both on the front locating points, it puts the instant center way out there, but above the front spindle, my question is, how can I get the most leverage, by raising the uca's at the rear mounting point, or lowering the lca's at the rear mounting points???? will I get the exact or similar reaction?? I know the lca's push forward, and the uca's pull back as the axle twist's to move forward, so which is going to give the most chassis lift??
Using a 116 inch wheel base now, with about 1740# front weight, and a 1430# rear weight which is going to help out the chassis to raise the front up high, and, plant the rear tires? Any info is accepted, and my 60 foot's are at 1.42-1.41 currently with 3615 lbs of hotrod with driver in it. Thanks for looking.

John
 

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I had a 66 elco. Facory four link with a 295 drag radial. I used dick miller's stuff. Very nice piece. My car already had the lower relocation brackets and i left it like that. Dick told me it would work better with raising the rear of the uppers. In a elco they end up hiiting the bed. Put double adjustable uppers in it,good set of lowers and a anti roll bar. Either rase the uppers or lower the lowers. Let her rip. I bounced my elco off the bumper more than once...
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for the reply 565edge, and currently I have the Lakewood no hop bars on the uca's, and I have made the lca mounting points more level to the earth at the front mounting points, and all dbl adj. bars, and bags in the springs with a anti roll bar as well, I just made a longer adj. link for the pass side, I don't need to bend a rod end on the hit, but I just lift the front up about 4-6 inches, and then it leaves and runs 1.41-1.43 60's, maybe because I have 116 inch wheelbase, but I am just about to try more air in the rear tires and adj. the roll bar some more to see how it lifts next.

What engine and trans combo did you have??? I have 505 with a Reid glide with TSI 1.80 gears and a 4.88 out back on 30 tall tires and I just can't seem to lift this pig any higher than that. Do I need more motor???? less rear gear???? I run 10.0's to 9.90's at 135-136mph. I know I am right there, but there has to be another traction bar setup that works better for my long wheelbased chassis!!!!! It is very rigid also. Your thoughts?????

John
 

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Are you spinning the tires or just want to lift the front end higher?
 

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Thanks for the reply 565edge, and currently I have the Lakewood no hop bars on the uca's, and I have made the lca mounting points more level to the earth at the front mounting points, and all dbl adj. bars, and bags in the springs with a anti roll bar as well, I just made a longer adj. link for the pass side, I don't need to bend a rod end on the hit, but I just lift the front up about 4-6 inches, and then it leaves and runs 1.41-1.43 60's, maybe because I have 116 inch wheelbase, but I am just about to try more air in the rear tires and adj. the roll bar some more to see how it lifts next.

What engine and trans combo did you have??? I have 505 with a Reid glide with TSI 1.80 gears and a 4.88 out back on 30 tall tires and I just can't seem to lift this pig any higher than that. Do I need more motor???? less rear gear???? I run 10.0's to 9.90's at 135-136mph. I know I am right there, but there has to be another traction bar setup that works better for my long wheelbased chassis!!!!! It is very rigid also. Your thoughts?????

John
I ran a 438 sbc with a glide. You need to look at the front suspension as well. I used trz a-ams with strange front shocks. In the rear I used D.M. rear springs and used strange double adjustable shocks. What is your pinion angle? My car would not leave and transfer wieght until i did the front suspension..
 

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If you have much motor with that much low gear you should have way to much bite in the car already. go back to your stock mounting points with a shock thats loose on extension and tight on comp. then take the bag out if you have a arb you dont need it. Its the front end you need to work on.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Are you spinning the tires or just want to lift the front end higher?
Novaman,
The elky hooks pretty good although I can only launch at 4000 with the 12 psi in tires, I used to spin until I dropped the rpm down. It likes 12 psi in the tires as this is the boarderline to the white knuckle ride down track. I would like to lift the front end about a foot and then carry it out about 20-30 feet or so, or less, as long as the 60 ft's pick up a little and become more consistant. The converter company said they are changing the sprag, and changing the fin angle to grab more fluid within the conv., Mr. John Winters from J.W. Perf. has his hands in this one as this is the 2nd time back and still too loose for my liking. More info on the next post's also. Thanks for your reply.

John
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
reply

what rear spring are u using and what have u done to the front end?
yenko69,
Believe it or not, I am still running the stock springs with bags in both, but that may change soon. I may leave the pass. side in only, need more testing of course.
The front end still has the stock A-arms(TRZ tubular are coming over the winter, along with Strange 4 piston alum front brakes) and I have the QA1 coilover GM replacement 12 way single adj. spring and shock kit with fresh shocks, and I love it, all new stock steering parts, and the A-arms have poly material for the bushings. Stock spindles with chrome moly bump steer double adj. links. The gearbox was changed from p/s to a Saginaw manual with an aftermarket steering column with removable steering wheel. I have the shocks set at 90/10 or, one click on the knob from the full counterclockwise rotation. The front end can be lifted thru it's range of motion pretty easly. No inner fenders(plastic when I got it and all cracked) Batt. in the bed, and two bars to the front frame(14 point cage) Rear bars go right down to the rear shock area, or just above them. The chassis is quite stiff. What it seems to do is, launch up, then the suspension up front might be pulling it back down instead of letting it slowely stop and carry it out, I now have stops set at two inches of travel and it seems to like this vs. full ext. The rear shocks, I am currently setting them higher and they also are QA1 12 way single adj. and set at 10, but I don't have a full launch on that setting yet, this Fri. when I test. The front weight is around 1740# and the rear is around 1470#, very unbalanced but it is 116" wheelbase with a big block and alum heads, and only a glass hood and front bumper, alum rad. and all steel fenders and rad. support and stock front end. 3615 total# with me in it full fluids. Hope this helps. and thanks for your reply also.

John
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I ran a 438 sbc with a glide. You need to look at the front suspension as well. I used trz a-ams with strange front shocks. In the rear I used D.M. rear springs and used strange double adjustable shocks. What is your pinion angle? My car would not leave and transfer wieght until i did the front suspension..
565edge,
Ooh, this elky will transfer weight alright, and if I take out the air bags, it will almost drag the bumper, but then again, the tires go up into the tubs and it looses traction and blows the tires off. Pinion angle is currently set at 4 neg. I think I may have some crossmember flex, that's all I can think of, but it is supported with the Hotchkis support bars, but it still may be flexing a little, and I have not seen any witness marks anywhere from or rear of the cross member. Thanks for your reply also.

John
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
If you have much motor with that much low gear you should have way to much bite in the car already. go back to your stock mounting points with a shock thats loose on extension and tight on comp. then take the bag out if you have a arb you dont need it. Its the front end you need to work on.
Jeff,

Funny you say that now as when I tried to leave just under the stall of the converter, it would blow the tires off every time, so now it likes 4000, but the stall is 5000 and so far it hooks pretty dran good, but again from a previous reply, the front suspension seems to me to be pulling the front end back down when it has full travel, now set at two inches of travel only and this works better. One inch travel is what it does NOT like, it wants to travel to transfer the weight.

I also had, a 1.90 1st gear and now it is a 1.80 and that seems to work out better, and I am leaning towards a 4:56 gear vs. the 4:88 in there now. I had a friends 1.76 glide in there with his brothers 5200 stall 8 inch Coan converter and it went the fastest and quickest it has ever been, 9.81 @ 137mph with a 1.40 60ft. with a 6.20 in the 660 and it ran very well. The converter I have now was sent back and I should get in back Thur. and it should be much tighter than before, so I will see what happens this weekend @ Norwalk, Oh., and it is a 9 inch.

Do you mean to go back to my stock mounting points on top of the axle housing?(get rid of the no-hop bars you mean)???? And, take out both bags or just the driver side???? I apoligise for the questions, but If I change too many things at one time I will loose it completely on my tune up. I only have 12 way single adj QA1 shocks in the rear and front, rears are in stock location still and I can adj. ride heigth in the front, and the elky has a light rake in the front but not much, 28 tall front tires also. If you send me your email address in a pm, I can send some pics. I need to get a website to post pics, this would help a bunch. Hope this is enough info, let me know if you need more, and thanks for your reply also.

John
 

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565edge,
Ooh, this elky will transfer weight alright, and if I take out the air bags, it will almost drag the bumper, but then again, the tires go up into the tubs and it looses traction and blows the tires off. Pinion angle is currently set at 4 neg. I think I may have some crossmember flex, that's all I can think of, but it is supported with the Hotchkis support bars, but it still may be flexing a little, and I have not seen any witness marks anywhere from or rear of the cross member. Thanks for your reply also.

John
read this again and think about what it's telling U get the pinion 0 you need to look at the front angle make it match the rear just opposit + front - rear the car needs to have the ability to squat the rear you have it locked up with air bags.. and shocks i have used 5 diffrent sets of rear springs in my car to find the right ones i think anyway,,the ones i got from dick miller were to tall and soft factory were to soft and tall i have a cargo coil for a diffrent car w 1.5 coils removed no air bags and the same Qa1 on #4 #3 on a hooking track..the softer the back the harder it will hook with less travel in the front it does a teeter totter deal u have to find the ballance with the springs and use the shocks to fine tune it not lock it up i figured this out as the more travel i put in the front the less it would wheelie the front comes up the rear goes down with less travel..get the ;lower bar flat or down hill a little the upper rear bar should be 1 inch higher at the rear than the front mounting point any way u can..
 

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Yeah The no hop bars tend to be for low HP levels when you use to much HP they hit and unload with way to much seperation, I mean take both bags out of the back with a ARB in it they start working like springs. The springs on a car should be long and light just enough to hold it up. if a 12 inch 130 does not hold it up then a 14 inch 120 will. If a car squats in the rear it is unloading the tires, it should have a controled seperation of the tire from the wheelwell now sometimes this will look like a squat when its not dont look at the trunk look at the tire and wheel well lip. G-Bodies and their brothers tend to roll on the right rear, because its picking the right rear tire up this is why you have a ARB (anti roll bar)
 

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If you lower the rear mounting point of the upper rear bars (remove the no-hop "bars," I think), that should move your IC forward and up, which should help lift the front end and increase chassis separation in the rear at the same time.
 
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