Yellow Bullet Forums banner

1 - 20 of 40 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
370 Posts
maby its the location....not the technique.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
136,854 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
maby its the location....not the technique.
You are probably right. But you can take 10 people fishing all in the same spot at the same time. 1 will catch fish endlessly while the others get nothing. Reason I wanted a class... :p
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,371 Posts
Only went fly fishing twice...two smallmouth and perch the first time out, then zilch the next. Go figure.

I think they can just smell you, is all. Try showering before you strap on the waders next time.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
136,854 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks for the help but I was looking for opinions from people who actually know what the phuck they're talking about.
 

·
Un-Official YB Tormentor
Joined
·
5,087 Posts
A Class? Monty, thats a LIFETIME of knowledge you want. Most is personal experience. You just cant jump into a T/F car adn win rounds. Fishing is the same.


What type of water are you fishing? Stream, I would guess?

The BIGGEST part of effective fly fishing is learning how to read water , then what they are eating. The rest is learning how to cook them.

You need to learn to read the seams, and identify pockets of water. Thats HUGE. Casting blindly into the center of a big pool is as productive as fishing on a football field.

The seam is where 2 water speeds combine. The fish will be in the slow side of the seam, expending as little energy as possible. Before threading your line, take 20 minutes or more, to see what the water is doing. Watch how the eddys work around rocks, and the stuff the eddys carry to the SIDE and BEHIND the rocks. Even in pools!!

Fish need cover. Rocks, overhanging banks, etc. They even feel safe in the shade of trees.
They can hear, and are put on alert when someone is banging rocks trampling down a stream, or when thudding along the edge of a bank. You need a bit of stealth. As stupid as it sounds, they can also recognize human forms, as predators, so you need to break up your image. Bland colors. Think if YOU were in the water, looking up. You need to somewhat sneak up on holes. I've proven it time and time again to people I fish with. We will go to the same hole or riflet, and let them fish it first. We both sit for 20 minutes, and I will come out with the fish. They rush and start the Cast & Blast. I stalk the same hole, and stand for a few minutes to decide WHERE to cast, so the fly hits the anticipated seam.

What they eat.... Again, I assume you are on the stream. Take 2 1" sharpened wood dowels and wrap some insect screen around them. About 20" wide. When unrolled , think of the Torah, or Dead Sea Scrolls. Jam them into the stream bed. Go above the screen, and stumble /shuffle, and disturb some rocks, and streambed gravel. The water will carry the chaff righ to your screen. Pull the screen up and identify what nymphs, larvae, etc. thats in the water, and what stage of development they are in. That will clue you in to what you need to be throwing. Also, look in "dead eddys" where the water swirls at the edge , and you see chaff on top of the water. Screen that up, and look to see if there are spent wing spinners, etc. Gives you an idea if you missed a hatch, or what. If you are throwing a completely different insect than what is hatching, its likely you are better off watching porn. You'll catch just as much. Sometimes attractor patterns will be useful, like a Royal Coachman. BIG fish like wet flys like a Dace, tossed in front of them. Those work good on undercut banks, and the leading and trailing edge of a pool. Very few fish in the center of the pool. They are at the head, where the food comes first, or the tail of the pool, where everything funnels. LOOK for cover for the fish to hide behind to decide which end.

The key is to approach flyfishing a stream like an 80 year old man. Slow, deliberate and calculated.

If you are still buggywhipping, stay off the water, and learn to cast. You SHOULD be able to hit a paper plate at 20 yards, and have the fly GENTLEY land on it.
 

·
Un-Official YB Tormentor
Joined
·
5,087 Posts
Another thing:

Clear water is the toughest to fish.
Long light leader/tippet. Ultra soft landings.

Warm water like 70 degrees puts trout down. You have to bump their noses. They are bordering exhaustion. Warm water doesnt carry the oxygen cold water does.

There is also something else you might be encountering.

I forget the name, but the hatch consists of minute flys all clustered, in a whitish color. Trichrominids or something is the name. Good luck. Sometimes a SMALL piece of cottonball tied to a #24 or smaller hook will help. Long fine leader and 6' of 8x tippet. (Yeah, its a phucker to cast. About .003 diameter) Use the cotton like a rabbit hair dubbing. A few winds around the hook. Gnarly looking is the key. Pull some strands of cotton out , so its fluffy looking. Your only chance when that shit is hatching.

Check a local outfitter for patterns they are using. Be prepared to spend more on a fly. What good is $1.00 muddler minnows, when the local fish never hit them? Get the recommended size, and go UP 2 sizes and DOWN 2 sizes. They make a difference.
 

·
I've Got The Cure
Joined
·
2,629 Posts
A Class? Monty, thats a LIFETIME of knowledge you want. Most is personal experience. You just cant jump into a T/F car adn win rounds. Fishing is the same.


What type of water are you fishing? Stream, I would guess?

The BIGGEST part of effective fly fishing is learning how to read water , then what they are eating. The rest is learning how to cook them.

You need to learn to read the seams, and identify pockets of water. Thats HUGE. Casting blindly into the center of a big pool is as productive as fishing on a football field.

The seam is where 2 water speeds combine. The fish will be in the slow side of the seam, expending as little energy as possible. Before threading your line, take 20 minutes or more, to see what the water is doing. Watch how the eddys work around rocks, and the stuff the eddys carry to the SIDE and BEHIND the rocks. Even in pools!!

Fish need cover. Rocks, overhanging banks, etc. They even feel safe in the shade of trees.
They can hear, and are put on alert when someone is banging rocks trampling down a stream, or when thudding along the edge of a bank. You need a bit of stealth. As stupid as it sounds, they can also recognize human forms, as predators, so you need to break up your image. Bland colors. Think if YOU were in the water, looking up. You need to somewhat sneak up on holes. I've proven it time and time again to people I fish with. We will go to the same hole or riflet, and let them fish it first. We both sit for 20 minutes, and I will come out with the fish. They rush and start the Cast & Blast. I stalk the same hole, and stand for a few minutes to decide WHERE to cast, so the fly hits the anticipated seam.

What they eat.... Again, I assume you are on the stream. Take 2 1" sharpened wood dowels and wrap some insect screen around them. About 20" wide. When unrolled , think of the Torah, or Dead Sea Scrolls. Jam them into the stream bed. Go above the screen, and stumble /shuffle, and disturb some rocks, and streambed gravel. The water will carry the chaff righ to your screen. Pull the screen up and identify what nymphs, larvae, etc. thats in the water, and what stage of development they are in. That will clue you in to what you need to be throwing. Also, look in "dead eddys" where the water swirls at the edge , and you see chaff on top of the water. Screen that up, and look to see if there are spent wing spinners, etc. Gives you an idea if you missed a hatch, or what. If you are throwing a completely different insect than what is hatching, its likely you are better off watching porn. You'll catch just as much. Sometimes attractor patterns will be useful, like a Royal Coachman. BIG fish like wet flys like a Dace, tossed in front of them. Those work good on undercut banks, and the leading and trailing edge of a pool. Very few fish in the center of the pool. They are at the head, where the food comes first, or the tail of the pool, where everything funnels. LOOK for cover for the fish to hide behind to decide which end.

The key is to approach flyfishing a stream like an 80 year old man. Slow, deliberate and calculated.

If you are still buggywhipping, stay off the water, and learn to cast. You SHOULD be able to hit a paper plate at 20 yards, and have the fly GENTLEY land on it.
Driven..Very Nice Post!!! :smt023

Monty, I think we discussed every single part of this above.....
Time on the Water is the Key!!!

If thats not enough and you are up to a nice vacation next spring..

http://www.streamsideorvis.com/index.php

http://www.orvis.com/store/shop.aspx?pageType=GROUP&dir_id=758&Group_ID=7524&shop_id=14175&bhcp=1

or

Here>>>http://www.gateslodge.com/
with him.... Rusty Gates.


I don't know if he is still teaching classes or not.
But with out a doubt his is the best as they come.


Now..other then that...Stay on the water..
Keep pitching...floaters(Dry) if nothing is hitting, pitch sinkers(nymps)!!!

ALL the Best to ya!!! ;)
 

·
Un-Official YB Tormentor
Joined
·
5,087 Posts
Thanks Steve....I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night...LOL




Monty, when you try fishing in clear SLOW water, its even important how you tie the fly, the size of the tag end, etc.. Can be a real bastard. Always carry M-80's or 1/4 sticks of dynomite. Guaranteed producers! LOL
 

·
www.PelechBrosRacing.com
Joined
·
4,000 Posts
Great stuff, Driven2xs!

Monty - I'm struggling just as badly as you are. What I'm thinking about doing is hiring a professional guide that's specific to the water I like to fish. I already have a guy picked out for the Muskegon River. For the Pere Marquette, it'll most likely be one of the guys out of Baldwin Bait & Tackle. I figure I'll learn two very important things; how to look for the ideal spot and how to catch fish from that spot.

If you're intersted, lets hook up and split the fees for a day with a guide/instructor when you get back. Salmon, Steelhead, Trout... Whatever & wherever...
 

·
Un-Official YB Tormentor
Joined
·
5,087 Posts
Interview your guides before blindly hiring them. Be sure the guy you talk to,is the actual guide, and not some kid he taught.

Ask him if he'll teach you what to look for, not just drop you in a spot.

Some days, ONE fish , is more gratifying than 50. Late summer fishing can be a real bitch. Right after a rain is always good.


Monty-
Another thing that I forgot to mention.....

Trout will sip, and make small ripples. (Time for Wet flys and emergers)

Trout will make larger ripples/pronounced rings (Emergers and drys)

Trout will jump out of the water (Drys, especially Caddis imitations)

If nothing is happening on top, then nymphing or wets are the way to start.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
136,854 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
A Class? Monty, thats a LIFETIME of knowledge you want. Most is personal experience. You just cant jump into a T/F car adn win rounds. Fishing is the same.


What type of water are you fishing? Stream, I would guess?

The BIGGEST part of effective fly fishing is learning how to read water , then what they are eating. The rest is learning how to cook them.

You need to learn to read the seams, and identify pockets of water. Thats HUGE. Casting blindly into the center of a big pool is as productive as fishing on a football field.

The seam is where 2 water speeds combine. The fish will be in the slow side of the seam, expending as little energy as possible. Before threading your line, take 20 minutes or more, to see what the water is doing. Watch how the eddys work around rocks, and the stuff the eddys carry to the SIDE and BEHIND the rocks. Even in pools!!

Fish need cover. Rocks, overhanging banks, etc. They even feel safe in the shade of trees.
They can hear, and are put on alert when someone is banging rocks trampling down a stream, or when thudding along the edge of a bank. You need a bit of stealth. As stupid as it sounds, they can also recognize human forms, as predators, so you need to break up your image. Bland colors. Think if YOU were in the water, looking up. You need to somewhat sneak up on holes. I've proven it time and time again to people I fish with. We will go to the same hole or riflet, and let them fish it first. We both sit for 20 minutes, and I will come out with the fish. They rush and start the Cast & Blast. I stalk the same hole, and stand for a few minutes to decide WHERE to cast, so the fly hits the anticipated seam.

What they eat.... Again, I assume you are on the stream. Take 2 1" sharpened wood dowels and wrap some insect screen around them. About 20" wide. When unrolled , think of the Torah, or Dead Sea Scrolls. Jam them into the stream bed. Go above the screen, and stumble /shuffle, and disturb some rocks, and streambed gravel. The water will carry the chaff righ to your screen. Pull the screen up and identify what nymphs, larvae, etc. thats in the water, and what stage of development they are in. That will clue you in to what you need to be throwing. Also, look in "dead eddys" where the water swirls at the edge , and you see chaff on top of the water. Screen that up, and look to see if there are spent wing spinners, etc. Gives you an idea if you missed a hatch, or what. If you are throwing a completely different insect than what is hatching, its likely you are better off watching porn. You'll catch just as much. Sometimes attractor patterns will be useful, like a Royal Coachman. BIG fish like wet flys like a Dace, tossed in front of them. Those work good on undercut banks, and the leading and trailing edge of a pool. Very few fish in the center of the pool. They are at the head, where the food comes first, or the tail of the pool, where everything funnels. LOOK for cover for the fish to hide behind to decide which end.

The key is to approach flyfishing a stream like an 80 year old man. Slow, deliberate and calculated.

If you are still buggywhipping, stay off the water, and learn to cast. You SHOULD be able to hit a paper plate at 20 yards, and have the fly GENTLEY land on it.

Good post, Driven. I have watched a few DVD's and read a few books about everything you posted. I have also spoken to many people here about the above. But having someone teach you how to drive a car without ever being with you to point out your mistakes will take a person a long time to figure it out himself. What I'm trying to avoid before it's too late is what I may be doing wrong. Kinda like the guy who has been golfing for 40 years but just isn't there yet. When someone tries to teach him the correct way its next to impossible to break that bad habit.

Spotting seems to be easy whe reading itin a book or talking to people. What I have noticed is casting behind that rock or near the calm water is when you finally give up and walk up stream. You look at the spot and think to yourself.. How that was a waste of time. The streams here run from around 3 inch to 3 feet deep. Without knowing the river its hard to figure out where the 3 foot is compared to the 3 inch stuff is at without walking closer. Right now I cast from roughtly 30 feet away.

I find it easier in the rivers in Michigan and Ohio. For one there is plenty of room to cast without worrying about getting hung up. I usually roll the line and work the river from side to side. The current is pretty constent in both states. Here the current flow goes from dead still to pretty rough withing 20-30 feet. So it makes it pretty tought to work nymphs side to side. Right now I cast up river and cast back up river when the line is parallel to me. That only covers around 25 feet over water as it takes around 5 fee for the nymph to sink.

So basically Im looking for any bad habits I may have be broken. This cannot be done by reading books or getting suggestions. Something you feel as you are doing everything y the text book. But until someone watches its impossible to say so

The second thing is spotting. Right now I hunt for heavy to slow current flows, around rocks, shallows/calms and two feeding streams.

This does not mean I will give up till I find someone to teach me a few things or just simply watch. I will still be out there trying my hardest to get better at this. But I still wanted someone who can show me a few tricks..
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
136,854 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Thanks Steve....I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night...LOL




Monty, when you try fishing in clear SLOW water, its even important how you tie the fly, the size of the tag end, etc.. Can be a real bastard. Always carry M-80's or 1/4 sticks of dynomite. Guaranteed producers! LOL

Right now I use a little pocket guide and also a tying tool with guide to help. The water is much clearer here than it is back home and probably the reason its tougher.. But I like the challenge.. :p
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
136,854 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Got skunked again today. There was a full moon last night so I didn't leave here till 5:00 PM and fished till around 7:00 PM. The river was running a little lower than usual. Im heading out on Wednesday on a boat and hopefully I can pull something up..
 
1 - 20 of 40 Posts
Top