[496bu]

My starter just started turning very slowly. So I did some tests.
Battery ( optima red top)is 12.45v at rest, and 10.85v while spining over the motor. 10.85v at disconnect switch on both sides. I'm only getting 8.45v to the starter is this normal? I have a #1 welding cable running from battery to kill switch to the ford relay. The starter is a powermaster 9000 a bit undersized for this motor only 160lbs of tourqe. 13to1 comp bbc. I checked all grounds and there good. All cables and crimps are good. So it has to be Either the battery or the starter correct?? I'm going to replace the ford relay just for kicks. What do you guys suggest??

 

[Jagtec1]

12.45 is indicative of a discharged battery. You need to start with a good battery to do any testing. You should not be losing that much voltage to the starter, but try charging that battery first, or replacing it. 12.45 is about 25% discharged, IIRC.

 

[RRRAAAYYY2]

12.5 volts in a battery that is used for starting is considered to be 50% discharged. Deep cycle is a lot different, but in high crank applications, the 50% is true.

To check out where you are losing the voltage, here is a definitive test:
http://www.svapowerproducts.com/html/voltage_drop.html

It will show if it is in a wire, in the starter, through the solenoid, etc. Dont think of it as complicated, it takes us usually one hour to teach a room full of mechanics how to do the test. Or 3 minutes to teach my 8 and 10 year old daughters. It is that easy, actually easier.

Another thing, if you are using the Ford solenoid on a Chev and have the starter hot wired, you are leaving it engaged a little longer than it should be. It will wearing the front bearing/bushing, and the clutches in the drive out about 75% faster than normal.

 

[496bu]

what do you mean by hot wire?

 

[RRRAAAYYY2]

A common thing people do is take a jumper wire from the main battery post on the starter over to the switch wire on the starters solenoid. Then use a Ford style solenoid on the fender wall to activate the starter. Which would engage the solenoid when power was applied to the mian cable going to it (via the Ford Solenoid).

Problem with this is when you remove power from the Ford Solenoid, the starter is still spinning and turns into a poor generator. This produces enough voltage to keep the starters solenoid engaged for a fraction of a second longer. But the fraction of a second is when the motor goes from 200 rpm to 1000rpm as the sparksplugs finish the start cycle.

That doesnt sound huge, until you consider that the gear ratio is like 16 to 1 or more. So that is 3200rpm to 16,000 rpm. That is 5 times the rpm it was designed for, and therefore hard on bushings, bearings, and driver clutches.

 

[ccrider]

so you don't recommend using the ford type solenoid that way?

 

[Mike Beck]

I heard that from someone else also. Well, he did not explain it in that fashion, but did say it would wear the starter out faster than it should have been.

If we want to keep that wire away from the headers, how about running the wire down from the Ford solenoid to the GM solenoid, and also run the solenoid wire down. Yeah, now we have two solenoids working at the same time, but we don't have to worry about the main wire ever hitting a header tube. I had it happen once, NEVER want to see that happen again!!!!!!!!!!

 

[jester]

how would you recommend to wire it with two solonoids? The instructions also say to jump it and wire the start signal to the sol. in the trunk.

 

[RRRAAAYYY2]

If you already have the Frd solenoid there, you could just add a relay to it to pull in the GM solenoid as well. Probably best to get two 50amp relays. Mount them close to the Ford solenoid, and use the wire you have going to the switch terminal now to operate the relays.

One relay to engage the Ford solenoid, and one to engage the GM solenoid. I am suggesting relays as their pull in current is very low so you can use one feed wire (you have already) for both.

Hope that makes sense, I will try and do a sketch up tonight when I get home.

 

[jester]

Thanks Ray that would be appriciated. The only reason I use a ford sol. in the trunk is to keep the feed cable deengergized. Then I came to thinking, if the sol. on the starter was heat soaked then what difference would a remote sol. actualy do since all that second ford sol. energizes the heat soaked one. Sounds counter productive.
Were you at pinks this past weekend, hanging around warlocks trailer by any chance?

 

[RRRAAAYYY2]

Here is a real quick sketch, should be easy to do with one new relay in the system. I would just mount the realy close to the starter and make sure it is a good quality one. 50amps should be enough, if you find a stronger one that is better.
Wired this way your main stud of the starter will recieve power before the solenoid can fire the starter. And when you let off the key, all wires will be dead.

As for Pinks, I went but since I didnt have rainbow fruity underwear on thewy wouldnt let me in. Just kidding, I didnt make it, way too much going on with the EDRS. Things are coming together huge for it, but it certainly hasnt been without effort. Chris and Trish have worked their arses off.
The who's who of the legal street car world certainly will have some new names for people to get used to after the event. Lots of capable cars coming, from racers I had never heard of before even.
Back to Pinks, heard it was a huge success and lots of guys really liked it. Also heard the opposite from some racers. Myt wife works with a girl that went. She tried three times to get a picture with Rich in the rain. Three times he turned around and came back and stood with her in the rain, smiled, and got his picture taken. Made her day hugely.
Reminds me of Chip Foose, the mother will sign and draw stuff for fans as long as they are standing in front of him. Stuff like that makes these guys super popular.

I remember when my deaf daughter was 5, she wanted to get Paul Henderson's autograph at a legends game. He was doing nothing, looked her in the eye and sluffed her. I remember sitting in school watching him score the goal in '72, and I now have zero use for him. From hero to zero in about 3 seconds flat.

Rich is screwing racing up big time, but I have to give him some respect for doing what was right in the fans eyes, especially when he had a huge reason to run the other way.

 

[ccrider]

i've got another ford solenoid , would that work?

 

[jester]

Thanks for the pic. Thats what I was thinking but like they say a pic is worth a thousand words.
I think i hijacked this thread, sorry

 

[RRRAAAYYY2]

i've got another ford solenoid , would that work?

A Ford Solenoid (is really a mag switch), and yes t would work. But you will require another trigger wire for it as it draws too much power to be wired in with the other Ford solenoid. So you would have a switch, say toogle to fire the main solenoid, and then a push button to engage the starter's solenoid.
You can eliminate the second wire by using a relay as their draw is only 2amps, instead of 40-60 amps of the Ford solenoid.

 

[shotgun]

Also check grounds,grounds,grounds.
I just did a quick rewire to a car having slow start ,as well as other electical issues.
Voltage drop from the battery to main feed was almost 2 volts.
Ran a #4 ground from rear mounted battery to a front mounted busbar,added grounds for everything to the busbar and cleaned all connections.
Just did a static test,have not cranked it yet but the battery was 12.59 volts and the voltage at the main feed is now 12.51.
Me thinks that should help a bit!

 

[RSNovi]

Also check grounds,grounds,grounds.

Yes!

 

[RRRAAAYYY2]

For checking voltage drops:
"
To check out where you are losing the voltage, here is a definitive test:
http://www.svapowerproducts.com/html/voltage_drop.html "