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and the "better" base material netted a better Spring.

Your results may vary.
I guess I do not see how a "cleaner" material changes the dynamics and characteristics of two identically wound springs. I may be just ignorant in the spring world....
 

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I guess I do not see how a "cleaner" material changes the dynamics and characteristics of two identically wound springs. I may be just ignorant in the spring world....
If one has a "calmer" natural frequency ( because of its properties) could that spring be made lighter ?

If one material is less susceptible to fatigue can you make a spring different ? Can you make it lighter ?

Would the different properties of the material give a different compresive strength for the same size, length of wound wire ?

I don't know the answers to any of those questions, I'm just thinking out loud.
 

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If one has a "calmer" natural frequency ( because of its properties) could that spring be made lighter ?

If one material is less susceptible to fatigue can you make a spring different ? Can you make it lighter ?

Would the different properties of the material give a different compresive strength for the same size, length of wound wire ?

I don't know the answers to any of those questions, I'm just thinking out loud.
It sounds like all those questions are regarding the engineering of the spring and the ultimate yield strength of the wire used.

Natural frequency is related to the engineering of the spring, not the cleanliness.

Making a spring lighter is an engineering change.

Only way to make it lighter is either less coil or smaller wire, in the end less material used, engineering. Doing so changes the natural frequency of a spring.
 

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It's as simple as, Using a better base material results in a better end product. A better base material allows for the engineering of using less materials ..... and the Circle goes round and round.
 

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Its the engineering of the spring that netted you the performance gain, not the "super clean alloy". Super clean alloy's are just another word for very low inclusion percentage.
Aren't material advancements and choices part of the engineering of a spring?
 

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Aren't material advancements and choices part of the engineering of a spring?
Alloy advancements, yes. To say "Super clean alloy" Vs a standard alloy will have different harmonics and frequencies is an untrue statement.

My whole point was to get that across. the cleanliness has nothing to do with the engineering of a spring. it is the alloy composition and engineering.
 

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Alloy advancements, yes. To say "Super clean alloy" Vs a standard alloy will have different harmonics and frequencies is an untrue statement.
Is it?
Can you expand on that?
 

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the "cleaner" material improves the fatigue life and little more than that (thats actually a huge deal). it does not change the properties of the material that affect stiffness (i.e. two identical springs other than material cleanliness with have same characteristics) but it may allow a difference in design that might otherwise have not lasted with inferior fatigue properties
 

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the "cleaner" material improves the fatigue life and little more than that (thats actually a huge deal). it does not change the properties of the material that affect stiffness (i.e. two identical springs other than material cleanliness with have same characteristics) but it may allow a difference in design that might otherwise have not lasted with inferior fatigue properties
This is how some professional engine builders explained it to me.
 

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Discussion Starter #50
Who is the adequate person to recommend the proper spring for the application? Cam builder? Spring company tech?
 

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the "cleaner" material improves the fatigue life and little more than that (thats actually a huge deal). it does not change the properties of the material that affect stiffness (i.e. two identical springs other than material cleanliness with have same characteristics) but it may allow a difference in design that might otherwise have not lasted with inferior fatigue properties
Post 40,44, & 38.

some applications “fatigue” is more important than others.

Your results may vary.
 

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I think that if you check into the issue very closely, you will find that there are just a few coil spring manufacturers who manufacture most of the coil springs currently available for engine valve springs, as well as suspension coil springs.
Associated Spring is one of the major manufacturers . . . . . . . . . . .
 

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Post 40,44, & 38.

some applications “fatigue” is more important than others.

Your results may vary.
I think most are referring to taking a given well functioning spring and remaking with a cleaner material in the same exact geometry. This won’t affect the dynamic performance it can simply take more cycles. This approach may not be the best way to optimally use the better material as you might be able to engineer a different style/geometry of spring that does the job better in additional ways rather than just last longer. Horses for courses
 

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I think most are referring to taking a given well functioning spring and remaking with a cleaner material in the same exact geometry. This won’t affect the dynamic performance it can simply take more cycles. This approach may not be the best way to optimally use the better material as you might be able to engineer a different style/geometry of spring that does the job better in additional ways rather than just last longer. Horses for courses
Which is exactly the point I was trying to make earlier.
 

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I think that if you check into the issue very closely, you will find that there are just a few coil spring manufacturers who manufacture most of the coil springs currently available for engine valve springs, as well as suspension coil springs.
Associated Spring is one of the major manufacturers . . . . . . . . . . .
I think we already covered that.
 

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Which is exactly the point I was trying to make earlier.
And mine. It seems you're the only one who followed along. .... and around and around we go. Lol
 

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I think most are referring to taking a given well functioning spring and remaking with a cleaner material in the same exact geometry. This won’t affect the dynamic performance it can simply take more cycles. This approach may not be the best way to optimally use the better material as you might be able to engineer a different style/geometry of spring that does the job better in additional ways rather than just last longer. Horses for courses
Exactly.
 
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