Yellow Bullet Forums banner

1 - 20 of 63 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,269 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Ok so, I'm new at checking springs. Purchased a LSM on head valve spring checker. Should I expect to see a difference checking them hot to checking them cold? If so, how much? I'm gonna check when I checking lash which, is going to be hot.
I'm thinking when they are hot, they relax a bit? :smt102
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,546 Posts
No, there won't be a noticeable difference in spring pressure between hot springs and cold (room temp) springs. No relaxation when they get hot (normal operating temperature).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,205 Posts
^^^^^^^ Ya, what Bill said.....

What's more important is making sure that your new pull tester is actually calibrated with your set up, most aren't. The best way it to have a spring that you know what the pressure is at your installed height. Then put it on the engine and check the tester and calibrate it from there. Unfortunately due to different rocker arm configurations, different fulcrum lengths and rocker ratios. Pull testers are not a pull out of the box and just use kind of tool.

Nick
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,654 Posts
Ok so, I'm new at checking springs. Purchased a LSM on head valve spring checker. Should I expect to see a difference checking them hot to checking them cold? If so, how much? I'm gonna check when I checking lash which, is going to be hot.
I'm thinking when they are hot, they relax a bit? :smt102

I would suggest, get the engine up to temp, lash a few cylinders then come back the next day to see what the cold lash has settled into.

Lash all the valves to the cold number.
Let's you take you're time lashing and, checking spring pressure's without working on one bank while the other side is cooling down.

Jim
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,269 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
^^^^^^^ Ya, what Bill said.....

What's more important is making sure that your new pull tester is actually calibrated with your set up, most aren't. The best way it to have a spring that you know what the pressure is at your installed height. Then put it on the engine and check the tester and calibrate it from there. Unfortunately due to different rocker arm configurations, different fulcrum lengths and rocker ratios. Pull testers are not a pull out of the box and just use kind of tool.

Nick
I guess better get the tester calibrated cause, right now, it has me a little spooked. Springs are all around 185-210 on seat. Cam is a solid roller .774/.745 272/.276 @.050 1.7 Jesel Mohawk shaft rockers. Spin up to 7200 rpm. Its a Straub cam. The springs are from him. They are supposedly similar to Manley Nextek 221440P which at 2.0" install height pressure is 255. I have them installed at 1.993 (I think, don't have my notes in front of me) and only showing 185-210 on tester.
I made sure the tester was square by rocking it like the directions said and that is it pushing on the rocker in the correct spot.
Sure wish I would have checked them when I built it. Trusted the cam guy and the spring chart. Motor has only 13 dyno pulls on it and about 150 occasional beat the hell out of it street miles. Lash was all good. Changed oil and cut filter today too. All looks real good.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23,531 Posts
I guess better get the tester calibrated cause, right now, it has me a little spooked. Springs are all around 185-210 on seat. Cam is a solid roller .774/.745 272/.276 @.050 1.7 Jesel Mohawk shaft rockers. Spin up to 7200 rpm. Its a Straub cam. The springs are from him. They are supposedly similar to Manley Nextek 221440P which at 2.0" install height pressure is 255. I have them installed at 1.993 (I think, don't have my notes in front of me) and only showing 185-210 on tester.
I made sure the tester was square by rocking it like the directions said and that is it pushing on the rocker in the correct spot.
Sure wish I would have checked them when I built it. Trusted the cam guy and the spring chart. Motor has only 13 dyno pulls on it and about 150 occasional beat the hell out of it street miles. Lash was all good. Changed oil and cut filter today too. All looks real good.
They’ll drop some with 13 dyno pulls, and 150 street miles. That much really ain’t that strange. Springs like that, we used to shim, or change out after 5 to 10 runs. At least on the intake. They always dropped more for me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,584 Posts
I guess better get the tester calibrated cause, right now, it has me a little spooked. Springs are all around 185-210 on seat. Cam is a solid roller .774/.745 272/.276 @.050 1.7 Jesel Mohawk shaft rockers. Spin up to 7200 rpm. Its a Straub cam. The springs are from him. They are supposedly similar to Manley Nextek 221440P which at 2.0" install height pressure is 255. I have them installed at 1.993 (I think, don't have my notes in front of me) and only showing 185-210 on tester.
I made sure the tester was square by rocking it like the directions said and that is it pushing on the rocker in the correct spot.
Sure wish I would have checked them when I built it. Trusted the cam guy and the spring chart. Motor has only 13 dyno pulls on it and about 150 occasional beat the hell out of it street miles. Lash was all good. Changed oil and cut filter today too. All looks real good.
My cam is about the same specs as yours. I start at #325 on the seat. Triple comp cams springs set at 2.00. I don’t think you have the right spring.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
507 Posts
The very longest lasting springs I have found for this application is Gold Stripe Isky Tool Room springs. They guarantee them to last 1000 racing miles. I have personally run them much farther and not lost more than a pound or two pressure. I have a couple sets in use on solid roller .705" lift cams as old as since 2001. Any other springs I tried back then lost pressure on the first pull to coil bind.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,191 Posts
^^^^^^^ Ya, what Bill said.....

What's more important is making sure that your new pull tester is actually calibrated with your set up, most aren't. The best way it to have a spring that you know what the pressure is at your installed height. Then put it on the engine and check the tester and calibrate it from there. Unfortunately due to different rocker arm configurations, different fulcrum lengths and rocker ratios. Pull testers are not a pull out of the box and just use kind of tool.

Nick
dumb question Nick....how are onhead testers calibrated? I have the LSM model....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
78 Posts
I guess better get the tester calibrated cause, right now, it has me a little spooked. Springs are all around 185-210 on seat. Cam is a solid roller .774/.745 272/.276 @.050 1.7 Jesel Mohawk shaft rockers. Spin up to 7200 rpm. Its a Straub cam. The springs are from him. They are supposedly similar to Manley Nextek 221440P which at 2.0" install height pressure is 255. I have them installed at 1.993 (I think, don't have my notes in front of me) and only showing 185-210 on tester.
I made sure the tester was square by rocking it like the directions said and that is it pushing on the rocker in the correct spot.
Sure wish I would have checked them when I built it. Trusted the cam guy and the spring chart. Motor has only 13 dyno pulls on it and about 150 occasional beat the hell out of it street miles. Lash was all good. Changed oil and cut filter today too. All looks real good.
On the head checkers rarely match the pressure shown by a bench checker, everyone I have seen and used indicated less pressure than the spring will check on an accurate bench checker. I would suggest you remove one spring and have it checked on a quality bench checker. If the one spring is "good", reinstall it and compare the rest with your on the head checker.


As for on the head checkers, the Buxton Engineering model is as good as it gets.


If you decide to replace your springs, I strongly recommend buying a name brand spring, not some reboxed generic that is supposed to be like an actual quality part. Valve springs are not a good place to skimp.


There are several high quality spring manufacturers to choose from. PSI is top of the food chain as far as something a "lay person" can buy. PAC also has some decent stuff. The Manley Nextek's and Isky Tool Room's are both produced by reputable manufacturers.
 

·
Mike
Joined
·
7,100 Posts
If you know what your springs test at with a bench tester, then when on the car new, you can note what it is, and follow the trend with cycles using the on head tester. Will this work in real practice?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,171 Posts
dumb question Nick....how are onhead testers calibrated? I have the LSM model....

By adding or removing shims to the tester. More then likely the pivot length does not match your rockers. Most common problem.
 

·
EFI/N2O JUNKIE
Joined
·
16,362 Posts
OP, read all the above! I have that same LSM tester, out of the box no good! Well, it was good, but far from accurate! I pulled two springs and checked them on both a good bench-mounted tester and a cheap tester I use in a vise, those two testers read the same, though the small one in the vise is scary! I had to calibrate my LSM to read what the bench-mounted tester did, after that, I am within 10 lbs at worst case. How you pull on it matters!

So, pull off two springs, try to find what looks the worst unless they are all the same, and get them checked. While you have them off, triple check the installed height! Without knowing that, you are kinda wasting your time. While you can check the springs against the manufacturers specs, you still want to know the installed height!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,269 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
The very longest lasting springs I have found for this application is Gold Stripe Isky Tool Room springs. They guarantee them to last 1000 racing miles. I have personally run them much farther and not lost more than a pound or two pressure. I have a couple sets in use on solid roller .705" lift cams as old as since 2001. Any other springs I tried back then lost pressure on the first pull to coil bind.
I had the best Isky springs in there with the old motor. Seen a lot of hard street miles and a few trips down the strip. Had the shop test them after 10 years when I tore it down and they were still close to when they installed them!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,269 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
The very longest lasting springs I have found for this application is Gold Stripe Isky Tool Room springs. They guarantee them to last 1000 racing miles. I have personally run them much farther and not lost more than a pound or two pressure. I have a couple sets in use on solid roller .705" lift cams as old as since 2001. Any other springs I tried back then lost pressure on the first pull to coil bind.
By adding or removing shims to the tester. More then likely the pivot length does not match your rockers. Most common problem.
Yes, I removed shims on the checker to make the contact point just a tad to the inside of the roller. I use just the ends of my fingers to pull the checker after I make sure its squared up. Still reads 185 to 200 on the seat. I removed a rocker on the weakest one and checked for signs of an un-happy valve train. The roller and valve tip look perfect.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,269 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
On the head checkers rarely match the pressure shown by a bench checker, everyone I have seen and used indicated less pressure than the spring will check on an accurate bench checker. I would suggest you remove one spring and have it checked on a quality bench checker. If the one spring is "good", reinstall it and compare the rest with your on the head checker.


As for on the head checkers, the Buxton Engineering model is as good as it gets.


If you decide to replace your springs, I strongly recommend buying a name brand spring, not some reboxed generic that is supposed to be like an actual quality part. Valve springs are not a good place to skimp.


There are several high quality spring manufacturers to choose from. PSI is top of the food chain as far as something a "lay person" can buy. PAC also has some decent stuff. The Manley Nextek's and Isky Tool Room's are both produced by reputable manufacturers.
The springs are from Chris Straub. Its his cam also. According to him they are made by Associated Spring and are basically Manley Nexteks. No doubt I should have bench tested them before installing. I set them up to be .050 to .060 from coil bind. According to the chart, they should be 255-260 where I have them installed. Looks like about a 20% loss if they really were at 255 originally and they really are at 185-200 right now.
I'm just gonna keep an eye on it. They are all showing about the same right now. If I show any more loss, it'll be time to dig into it further.
 

·
EFI/N2O JUNKIE
Joined
·
16,362 Posts
The springs are from Chris Straub. Its his cam also. According to him they are made by Associated Spring and are basically Manley Nexteks. No doubt I should have bench tested them before installing. I set them up to be .050 to .060 from coil bind. According to the chart, they should be 255-260 where I have them installed. Looks like about a 20% loss if they really were at 255 originally and they really are at 185-200 right now.
I'm just gonna keep an eye on it. They are all showing about the same right now. If I show any more loss, it'll be time to dig into it further.
Do yourself a favor and remove two and test the on the bench. Check the installed height while you're at it.

I thought my PAC springs had gone south, read low on the engine. Took 4 off, tested them on the bench with a brand new set I bought just in case I needed them. They were IDENTICAL to my new springs! I had looked-up the specs on the springs also so I knew what they should have read on the bench, which they did.

This is the type of tester I use when I can't get to the local bench top one.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pro-66835/overview/

It is actually pretty good. I only check an inner or outer, never combined. Plus you have to remember to either use your retainer or know the height of the step for the inner spring so you compress it enough. That .1 inch you kinda forget about is usually worth at least 20lbs........

My local guy has a Rimac and we have compared it to that little tester and found that cheapo but scary to use tester is pretty decent. Wouldn't use it for a living, but for a quick check, it is fine.
 
1 - 20 of 63 Posts
Top