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Discussion Starter #41
Good idea. I found billy shope's website and a ladder bar antisquat calculator. According to the calculations with a 108 wheelbase, 16" center of gravity height and 36.5 instant center I'm at 111% antisquat currently with front of bar 6" from ground. I can go to 7.5" gives me 139% and another hole up 9" goes to 166%. But that 9" is definately pointing the bar uphill. Should I go to 7.5 and start all over with trying shock adjustments? What's a good antisquat number?
Anti squat is what creates separation. I run 169% anti squat in my Chevy II. Its a 4 link car, but anti squat is anti squat. The car doesn't care
what "lever" you use to create it. Math doesn't lie. I don't see the car separating without out moving the bar up. Your own calculations seem to support that. Controlling the front end travel will play a large part in this equation as well, imo. Loose extension and very tight compression in the rear shocks is what works for me.

My car at rest



My car 100' out

When you say front end travel are you referring to shock adjustment or limiting travel. I currently have a lot of travel but is there any benefit to tying it down some even if it isn't hooking up? Seems all the fast guys I see only have an inch or 2 of upward travel in their cars. A lot of things I want to get back out there and try now, but it snowed last night, looks like I'm waiting till April!
 

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I wouldn't limit the travel, probably better to control the front with shock valving, if you have 6" of travel and it's going on the bumper you may want to limit the travel a bit, but rapid front end rise hitting a stop will upset the car,
 

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When you say front end travel are you referring to shock adjustment or limiting travel. I currently have a lot of travel but is there any benefit to tying it down some even if it isn't hooking up? Seems all the fast guys I see only have an inch or 2 of upward travel in their cars. A lot of things I want to get back out there and try now, but it snowed last night, looks like I'm waiting till April!
As said in the above post, I'm limiting how fast the front shocks can extend, to keep the wheels on the ground. The compression is somewhat tight, so the return to ride height is a gradual one going down track, and the front end isn't bouncing around at all. A bouncing front end, or a front end that snaps the wheels off the ground, but can't keep them there, tends to unload the rears on the way back down. The car is almost boring to watch.
 

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I can tell you with authority that you definitely do not want the ladder bar running uphill. I have been racing a ladder bar car for over 40 yeas and the optimum on my car and I run radials is 2 degree down angle on the bar. You might get away with zero but never uphill.
100 percent agree.

I had a pickup truck years ago that had the ladder bar mounts too high in the chassis. Made the bars run level to uphill and nothing would make it work. Cut the mounts, lowered them so the bars ran downhill and it fixed it.
All true for a slick. Radial is a whole different animal. It's not apples to apples.

I can tell you with 100% authority that Honk knows what he's talking about.
 

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Discussion Starter #45
I can tell you with authority that you definitely do not want the ladder bar running uphill. I have been racing a ladder bar car for over 40 yeas and the optimum on my car and I run radials is 2 degree down angle on the bar. You might get away with zero but never uphill.
100 percent agree.

I had a pickup truck years ago that had the ladder bar mounts too high in the chassis. Made the bars run level to uphill and nothing would make it work. Cut the mounts, lowered them so the bars ran downhill and it fixed it.
All true for a slick. Radial is a whole different animal. It's not apples to apples.

I can tell you with 100% authority that Honk knows what he's talking about.
So I'll try the 9" hole and see what happens I guess? 166% that puts me at. Personally I never trusted the whole bar angle theory because axle brackets can be different and can put the bars in different positions relative to the angle of the ground or rocker panel. But out and up measurements of the front joint is constant. Or am I wrong?
 

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So I'll try the 9" hole and see what happens I guess? 166% that puts me at. Personally I never trusted the whole bar angle theory because axle brackets can be different and can put the bars in different positions relative to the angle of the ground or rocker panel. But out and up measurements of the front joint is constant. Or am I wrong?
I'm sorry buddy, I have no knowledge of a radial except that it's completely different than a slick, and Honk knows his shit.
 

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I'm sorry buddy, I have no knowledge of a radial except that it's completely different than a slick, and Honk knows his shit.
Does anyone know what rear suspension setup Honk runs on his car?
 

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I think you need to put front of bars up a hole. Springs are to high in pressure and suspension is to tight. Car looks like a road race car trying to leave. Loosen it up a bit.
 

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Discussion Starter #51
I think you need to put front of bars up a hole. Springs are to high in pressure and suspension is to tight. Car looks like a road race car trying to leave. Loosen it up a bit.
Thanks, that's what I'm going to do. Up 2 holes to 160% or so and a set of 110lb springs. Also going to try to find a set of 12" wide wheels. Gotta keep after it!
 

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I’m going to be adding some real world information and number to this thread soon. The car is a little quicker than the OP’s but the data should be relavent.
 

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Yes. Mid 80s regal with 565 nitrous engine. I’m not going to post the ETs because it’s a grudge car but car has been 1.18 60 on a 28 inch slick on basically a no prep surface. Just changed over to pro bracket radials, changed the ladder bar setup ( raised the bars a few degrees up ) and installed Menser valved Afco big gun shocks on the rear and Viking AK valved shocks on the front. Will be getting in some testing shortly.
 

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Discussion Starter #55
Yes. Mid 80s regal with 565 nitrous engine. I’m not going to post the ETs because it’s a grudge car but car has been 1.18 60 on a 28 inch slick on basically a no prep surface. Just changed over to pro bracket radials, changed the ladder bar setup ( raised the bars a few degrees up ) and installed Menser valved Afco big gun shocks on the rear and Viking AK valved shocks on the front. Will be getting in some testing shortly.
Excellent, I'd definitely appreciate any info you're willing to share!
 

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I wouldn't limit the travel, probably better to control the front with shock valving, if you have 6" of travel and it's going on the bumper you may want to limit the travel a bit, but rapid front end rise hitting a stop will upset the car,
^^^^^ this
 

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If you could post some pictures of your car I might be able to give you some hints.
post a good photo of the rear suspension sitting on the ground at ride height. Also step back and squat down and take a sideways picture of the car from about 10 ft back so I can see the angle on the ladder bar. You don't seem to grasp that the ground has absolutely nothing to do with setting up the geometry of the suspension. I watched your video of the launch. That was not pretty. Like I said in earlier posts I run a similar combo. early Camaro, ladder bar Coil Over and radial slicks. I am not having any issues like you are having. Lots of the advice you are getting in this thread will have you chasing your tail for a long time. I learned everything I know the hard way and I know what works on my car. My car will run 10.0 @ 130 mph and 60 ft around 1.32. All motor no spray.
 

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If you could post some pictures of your car I might be able to give you some hints.
post a good photo of the rear suspension sitting on the ground at ride height. Also step back and squat down and take a sideways picture of the car from about 10 ft back so I can see the angle on the ladder bar. You don't seem to grasp that the ground has absolutely nothing to do with setting up the geometry of the suspension. I watched your video of the launch. That was not pretty. Like I said in earlier posts I run a similar combo. early Camaro, ladder bar Coil Over and radial slicks. I am not having any issues like you are having. Lots of the advice you are getting in this thread will have you chasing your tail for a long time. I learned everything I know the hard way and I know what works on my car. My car will run 10.0 @ 130 mph and 60 ft around 1.32. All motor no spray.
i was reading some of this stuff in here in complete disbelief. lol :rolleyes:
 

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Discussion Starter #59
If you could post some pictures of your car I might be able to give you some hints.
post a good photo of the rear suspension sitting on the ground at ride height. Also step back and squat down and take a sideways picture of the car from about 10 ft back so I can see the angle on the ladder bar. You don't seem to grasp that the ground has absolutely nothing to do with setting up the geometry of the suspension. I watched your video of the launch. That was not pretty. Like I said in earlier posts I run a similar combo. early Camaro, ladder bar Coil Over and radial slicks. I am not having any issues like you are having. Lots of the advice you are getting in this thread will have you chasing your tail for a long time. I learned everything I know the hard way and I know what works on my car. My car will run 10.0 @ 130 mph and 60 ft around 1.32. All motor no spray.
Thanks for the help. Unfortunately we're well into winter here and I've taken the car apart and I dont have any good side shots of the bars, I can say that the rocker panel was dead parallel to the ground so any ground angle also applies to the rocker. I agree the run was ugly. I tried a big change and tightened shocks all the way around full tight as I described. Most times I dont have someone to take videos so I'm stuck with that one till spring. The bars were angled down 1.5"- 2"rear to front which I believe I worked out to about 4 degrees
 

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OP you have a pm.
 
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