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Discussion Starter #1
Base Weight
2,700 lbs - Naturally Aspirated, unlimited cubic inch
2,600 lbs - Nitrous combinations, Up to 499ci.
2,850 lbs - Nitrous combinations, to 650ci
3,000 lbs – Nitrous combinations to 770ci
2,850 lbs – Centrifugally Supercharged combinations, alcohol as fuel may replace intercoolers
3,000 lbs – Roots blown (alcohol) 14-71 max.
3,000 lbs – Turbocharged combinations using a single turbo 106mm, alcohol may replace intercoolers
3,100 lbs - Turbocharged combinations using two turbos 88mm, alcohol as fuel may replace intercoolers

This is what I have read for rules so far. The twin turbo car has run [email protected] in Orlando at these rules. The big block nitrous has run [email protected] at these rules. I Bill Glidden have run [email protected] at 2450lbs. So how does 2700lbs make any sense? Now tell me mike ray how this is not some sort of personal agenda to Us? And make it make sense, no rambling and word games, just honest truth! BG
 

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I am definatley with you on this one!! I was standing on the starting line when you raced Dan Millen @ race wars,,,your stuff flat out works!! This is the same way I feel about the all motor class for Milans deal with only a 400lb. split between small block and big block combos. Do the math. I hate to say it but these things are mostly determined by $$$ sponsors and who they may favor??? You probably know that better than most.. It gets frustrating though.. Butch
 

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I agree 100%!! I think we should make more people run SB combinations to understand what a struggle it is to make them as quick as some have.. The old days of super street are way gone.. now we either run a turbo or two or 706 CID nitrous motors..
 

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Butch Kemp said:
I am definatley with you on this one!! I was standing on the starting line when you raced Dan Millen @ race wars,,,your stuff flat out works!! This is the same way I feel about the all motor class for Milans deal with only a 400lb. split between small block and big block combos. Do the math. I hate to say it but these things are mostly determined by $$$ sponsors and who they may favor??? You probably know that better than most.. It gets frustrating though.. Butch
$$$sponsors and who they might favor? Although I have seen some shady deals with parts being allowed into classes and some serious negotiating for weight breaks from blower manufacturers, there was none of that in this case. Bill, you are realistically the only guy out there with a 400-cube engine and a stick that can run that quick. Do you know of anyone else? We don't. No one else has been able to run that quick and/or get that light. If we give a weight break for a smaller cube motor then it must be specifically for you... if we don't then it must be specifically against you... We have guys with 450-cube engines who can't easily get down to 2600lbs that are distraught already.

We're actually trying to keep the rules very outlaw, very concise and simple. Will it discourage guys with engines smaller than 499 cubes? Probably ... but they're getting fewer and far in between each day as the former small cube Super Street crowd build much larger engines for Outlaw 10.5 competition. We're trying to appeal to the majority of the cars that are out there.
 

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Michael Ray said:
Butch Kemp said:
I am definatley with you on this one!! I was standing on the starting line when you raced Dan Millen @ race wars,,,your stuff flat out works!! This is the same way I feel about the all motor class for Milans deal with only a 400lb. split between small block and big block combos. Do the math. I hate to say it but these things are mostly determined by $$$ sponsors and who they may favor??? You probably know that better than most.. It gets frustrating though.. Butch
$$$sponsors and who they might favor? Although I have seen some shady deals with parts being allowed into classes and some serious negotiating for weight breaks from blower manufacturers, there was none of that in this case. Bill, you are realistically the only guy out there with a 400-cube engine and a stick that can run that quick. Do you know of anyone else? We don't. No one else has been able to run that quick and/or get that light. If we give a weight break for a smaller cube motor then it must be specifically for you... if we don't then it must be specifically against you... We have guys with 450-cube engines who can't easily get down to 2600lbs that are distraught already.

We're actually trying to keep the rules very outlaw, very concise and simple. Will it discourage guys with engines smaller than 499 cubes? Probably ... but they're getting fewer and far in between each day as the former small cube Super Street crowd build much larger engines for Outlaw 10.5 competition. We're trying to appeal to the majority of the cars that are out there.
So what your saying is people with small CID nitrous motor have no place with the NSCA? Is this correct?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Michael Ray said:
Butch Kemp said:
I am definatley with you on this one!! I was standing on the starting line when you raced Dan Millen @ race wars,,,your stuff flat out works!! This is the same way I feel about the all motor class for Milans deal with only a 400lb. split between small block and big block combos. Do the math. I hate to say it but these things are mostly determined by $$$ sponsors and who they may favor??? You probably know that better than most.. It gets frustrating though.. Butch
$$$sponsors and who they might favor? Although I have seen some shady deals with parts being allowed into classes and some serious negotiating for weight breaks from blower manufacturers, there was none of that in this case. Bill, you are realistically the only guy out there with a 400-cube engine and a stick that can run that quick. Do you know of anyone else? We don't. No one else has been able to run that quick and/or get that light. If we give a weight break for a smaller cube motor then it must be specifically for you... if we don't then it must be specifically against you... We have guys with 450-cube engines who can't easily get down to 2600lbs that are distraught already.

We're actually trying to keep the rules very outlaw, very concise and simple. Will it discourage guys with engines smaller than 499 cubes? Probably ... but they're getting fewer and far in between each day as the former small cube Super Street crowd build much larger engines for Outlaw 10.5 competition. We're trying to appeal to the majority of the cars that are out there.
This is the exact thing I speak about, since I am the only one who has run that quick, then who else are you afraid of? I still am not as quick as the others, so why not go with the facts? Other wise, your play on words has worked, it is a definite slight to us, plain and simple, you know, I know it, and most everyone else knows it, and for that matter, Kenny Perry has run decent, but 7.21 is not 6.96-6.97. Time for you folks to lose the buddy club mentality. BG
 

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Maybe if the rules were open to smaller CID motors more people would build them.. Billy is limited at the places he can race.. Do you think these rules will open up the avenue to more people with combos like his or people who may be a few steps from building one?
 

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You're the only one with the combination... There's more people out there with PSI blown cars. Why don't we just make a weight break for them too? At least, the numbers would look better. People at both ends suffer. There's no realistic way to include everybody and it's a balancing game to include as many as possible and keep parity.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Michael Ray said:
Do you actually know someone besides Billy that in this situation? Do you know someone with a 2400-2500lb Outlaw Super Street car running a small CID nitrous motor?
Dad will be racing Kenny Perrys car in bradenton in a few weeks. It has steel doors, steel decklid, stock front end, and will weigh 2390 with him in it, BG
 

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Michael Ray said:
You're the only one with the combination...
Mike who would build a combo like that if they need to weigh in at 2700#'s?? People read the rules.. They pick something they feel they can compete with.. Do you think a 2700# SB could compete with a TT car? Seriously!!
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Michael Ray said:
You're the only one with the combination...
Once again, not true, Sam Vincent, the Sorbys, Burton, these folks could get some light weight doors and have cars that fit this, and most are from the east, and mid west, so you now have several cars that could do this, BG
 

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I guess the question here is.. Are the rules setup so all combos are competitive? I believe they are not.. Here I am building a turbo car and would like to see the SB nitrous cars have a fighting chance!!
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Hows this for facts mike. The nmra has ss/o, you know the class is working well, the small block nitrous cars are allowed as big an engine as they can build, with any heads. As many stages of nitrous as they can blow it up with, and have to weigh 2600lbs. The turbo cars are restricted to smaller engines, and only allowed 91mm turbos. They have to weigh 3100lbs. Now these are just facts, BG
 
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