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So i have an ex winston cup motor from 2001 it was built by ilmor racing engines for penske. As it sits right now its a 358 3.29 stroke 6.2 lentz rods 4.185 bore and 12:1 compression with a c3 head. Im trying to get as much out of this as i can so I am going to change the pistons out, and im some what skeptical on how much compression I can run, I was thinking 15:1 but figured if im going to make this a max effort motor i should run more compression. My only worry is that the lite weight rods that are in the motor from lentz might not be able to take 17 or 18:1 compression.
Any thoughts?
 

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Lentz rods are just as good as a Dyers or a Carrillo, but if they are Nascar take offs then what ever you do change the bolts , i can not stress this enough ( don't ask me how i know ) they are expensive yes but way cheaper than a short block Most of the Lentz rods have Carr- SPS or A1 bolts,
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Lentz rods are just as good as a Dyers or a Carrillo, but if they are Nascar take offs then what ever you do change the bolts , i can not stress this enough ( don't ask me how i know ) they are expensive yes but way cheaper than a short block Most of the Lentz rods have Carr- SPS or A1 bolts,
oh yes for sure they have 7/16 bolts no going to step those up is a must to an arp
 

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Do your rods have the EDM hole in them ?
 

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oh yes for sure they have 7/16 bolts no going to step those up is a must to an arp
Not trying to be a smart ass but ARP is a step down from a Carr or A1
In my opinion a SPS-Carr or A1 bolt is much better than an ARP
I guess some will argue that,,
Call Lentz and talk to them

Lentz Automotive, Inc.
1514 NC Hwy 10 West
Newton, NC 28658
c/o Eugene Lentz
Email: [email protected]
Phone: (828) 464-3041
Fax: (828) 464-3097
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Do your rods have the EDM hole in them ?
they are still in short block waiting on getting motor and trans back from chassis shop (installing motor and mid plates) to take to engine builder to have it gone through and pistons swapped. what type of bolts do you suggest?
 

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It depends on which ARP bolt you are talking about, the 3.5 and new 625 are as good as it gets.
 

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If they are CARR bolts, no need to replace....ask them........ they will buy used ones back if you have them,,,, whats that tell ya about the CARR

bolt...........best bolt in my opinion...........hell even the wmc 7 bolt is strong..... they even told me it's stronger then the weakest part of the rod...

CARR bolt.......damn near unbeatable in my opinion
 

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So i have an ex winston cup motor from 2001 it was built by ilmor racing engines for penske. As it sits right now its a 358 3.29 stroke 6.2 lentz rods 4.185 bore and 12:1 compression with a c3 head. Im trying to get as much out of this as i can so I am going to change the pistons out, and im some what skeptical on how much compression I can run, I was thinking 15:1 but figured if im going to make this a max effort motor i should run more compression. My only worry is that the lite weight rods that are in the motor from lentz might not be able to take 17 or 18:1 compression.
Any thoughts?
If you are going to run gasolene i would only run 14.5 to 1 compression max to be safe. Alky you can go up to 16.5 to 1 . You will have to be very carefull tuning with compressions that high with that type of head chambers ;) PS make sure you get a cam from a sharp cam grinder and give him as much info as you can. :cool:
 

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Some of the Ilmor pistons used in these motors were in the 320 gram range, a domed piston to raise compression will necessitate adding mallory in the crankshaft. The counterweights in the crankshaft are most likely very small O.D., and may already be loaded with mallory, leaving little room for an addition. The rods should have 3/8" bolts in them, and are plenty strong for what you want to do. Know a guy that took an ex Busch motor and tossed a snail on it, made 1550hp without a wimper.
 

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Not trying to be a smart ass but ARP is a step down from a Carr or A1
In my opinion a SPS-Carr or A1 bolt is much better than an ARP
I guess some will argue that,,
Call Lentz and talk to them

Lentz Automotive, Inc.
1514 NC Hwy 10 West
Newton, NC 28658
c/o Eugene Lentz
Email: [email protected]
Phone: (828) 464-3041
Fax: (828) 464-3097
Very Good advice! ;)
 

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If they are CARR bolts, no need to replace....ask them........ they will buy used ones back if you have them,,,, whats that tell ya about the CARR

bolt...........best bolt in my opinion...........hell even the wmc 7 bolt is strong..... they even told me it's stronger then the weakest part of the rod...

CARR bolt.......damn near unbeatable in my opinion
You are right the Carr bolts are desigined to be a non replacement bolt --but i broke one a few years ago and destroyed a very nice short block so i replace em if i get a set of used rods that i do not know the history of,, if you get a set of rods that you do know the history and the bolts have only been cycled a couple of times i might not replace but i doubt it, its just peace of mind for me,,
but damn they are expensive as hell, my thinking is if these rods have been in a 500 mile Nascar race turning high RPM then you need to change the bolts--if for nothing else you will know for a fact what you have

the wmc7 bolt which i think is the H-11 tool steel bolt is designed to be replaced periodicaly and not as expensive as the Carr ,,and in truth would work just fine

I am with you on the Carr bolts being the best, but many will disagree with us on that, But if it was me i would call Lentz that way you can get a bolt that is fitted for that rod,
 

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I am with you on the Carr bolts being the best, but many will disagree with us on that, But if it was me i would call Lentz that way you can get a bolt that is fitted for that rod,
Carr bolts are they best, period...they have been for years and still nothing better

but, in racing as you found out anything can happen
 

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I built these cup,busch, and truck series engines for 9 years and never saw one break. Most of the time the bolts that are put in only when assembling the engine. When the rods are resized or torqued up for bearing clearance, the " race bolts" weren't used. We used another set of Carr bolts just for that.After the "race bolts" were torqued ,measuring the stretch, 3 times they were replaced and the used bolts were used for resizing and checking bearing clearances. Un doubtedly the best bolts I've ever used. More than likely they are 3/8 bolts . Just my 2 cents.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Some of the Ilmor pistons used in these motors were in the 320 gram range, a domed piston to raise compression will necessitate adding mallory in the crankshaft. The counterweights in the crankshaft are most likely very small O.D., and may already be loaded with mallory, leaving little room for an addition. The rods should have 3/8" bolts in them, and are plenty strong for what you want to do. Know a guy that took an ex Busch motor and tossed a snail on it, made 1550hp without a wimper.
would this weight have to be added because of the compression alone or because of the increased height of the dome? Phil at Scorpion racing engines told me that he can get the piston to the same weight with the increased dome for the compression, would just have to raise the piston dome by moving all of that up in the piston. I can understand for the added weight if there was any but if there isnt does compression come in.
 

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would this weight have to be added because of the compression alone or because of the increased height of the dome? Phil at Scorpion racing engines told me that he can get the piston to the same weight with the increased dome for the compression, would just have to raise the piston dome by moving all of that up in the piston. I can understand for the added weight if there was any but if there isnt does compression come in.
Weight would only need to offset the increased piston weight. I'd say it's best to tear it down, and see what you have first before making plans. The Ilmor/Penske Ford C3 piston I saw already had a very short compression height, and was a 2 ring design.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Weight would only need to offset the increased piston weight. I'd say it's best to tear it down, and see what you have first before making plans. The Ilmor/Penske Ford C3 piston I saw already had a very short compression height, and was a 2 ring design.
I am its going to be completely gone through and stuff outside of wear tolerances replaced. the pistons are going to go though. we shall see im just worried about the rods but seems like everyone says they are good to go.
 
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