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One thing no ones posted on here was the 351c bob glidden ran in his Fairmont was never defeated all season. Had not happened before or since in pro stock history.Even the bbf motors he campaigned successfully never achieved this. Also i hear you need to scream the cleveland to make power?? Just finished a non ported 4v motor for mud racer that peaked at 5900. Hardly screaming.
 

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I think he was undefeated with his Plymouth also. And remember, I think the big Block Chevy had the same weight break as the Cleveland.
No he was #1 with arrow not undefeated. Shoebox is only car with that title.He was allowed the same weight cause of the longer wheelbase of Fairmont. That put him on even ground, the pintos had to carry around 300lbs.
 

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The 351 C engines were overweight pigs that were anything but performers, especially the 351 C with the 4V heads.
The classes we run in with iron cleveland heads the chebby boys need 383 cubes and brodix heads to even stay close. I mentioned maybe we should start a all iron class. But no one wants to play. Factory iron.
 

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Lol. Not a Chevy on the planet could compete. I already posted a 4 second small cubic SBF, naturally aspirated, single carb, with production iron Cleveland heads, running on gas, using a clutch that does 200+ 4 second 1/8th passes every year in a bracket racing class.

If it was all factory production iron heads requirements, it would be an all Cleveland fielded class. But remember, they suck, and everyone else makes better stuff from the factory lol!
Jon Kaase can be quoted on speedtalk as saying "now that the cleveland is out of emc for this year all other engines have a chance" !! He's building a big Chevy this year.
 

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sure seems like a lot of copying but still only cleveland winning emc. When allowed to run??:rock: Good thing Kaase building big chevy you guys will have chance now.
 

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Again, if it's such a good design, why are we not seeing more? If it was so good, why was it only made 4 years?
Just trying to understand why it's not more popular, if it's such a superior setup?
The reason you dont see more is the blocks. If u don't know how to prep a cleveland it will split a cylinder after 500hp pretty easy. However guys that know can make tons of power. I have a non grouted all iron 4v single 850 that is making 585 and also a 400 block that made [email protected] Nothing extravagant. Also i have the first Trackboss cleveland that made [email protected] and we run out of heads. Just finished up a new set of heads to kick it up over 800. If you look at Aussie builds they pretty much routinely hit over 900 with the new cleveland style alloy heads. They are also using Trackboss blocks now and their own arrow blocks. They have been using aftermarket Windsor blocks to get power up.
 

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And if you took the ford wedge and compared it to the early Chevy 327 375 HP wedge you’d lose. And if you compared the Cleveland made in 68 to the 15 degree head designed in 93 you’d lose. And if you compared the 426 hemi to the 402 Chevy, Chevy would lose. And if you compared the 383 six pack to the 400 Ford, you’d lose. And on, and on, and on. I think we’ve beat this thing to death, and not one person has changed brands. They all had great points. They all had bad points. They all had great designs. They all had great flaws. The end.
I remember a article many years ago where dyno don was getting the 351c 4v for pro. Stock classes and he said they dynoed a complete 1970 cleveland and power was around 404 hp. So you cannot always go by printed numbers.
 

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Head flow for BB Chev in 2.19 .100-76.5 .200-125.5 .300-222.8 .400--275.4 .500-306.6 .600-316.4 .700-319.9 .800-322 1.88 .100-66.8 200-125.5 .300-161.2 .400-190.2
500-212.9 .600-232.7
.700-247.1 .800-257 Theres a set of oval port chevy heads i just had done for a buddy. Not bad but far from 4v cleveland. The rectangle chevy can get similar numbers as 4v. There a bit of misconception here on why the pro-stock racers had epoxy in intake runners and it wasn't to fill the floor! I have a set of 70 era prostock era heads that had the plates on exh and epoxy in the intake runner. The racer i bought these from said they would hog the intake runner out as far as possible before hitting water. Then because the valves were big for the bore size and lots of shrouding they would fill the floor on the cylinder wall side to deflect the flow to center of bore. It had nothing to do with filling the floor. He said had they not hit water they would've been bigger.
 

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I recall a interview that was being done with jon kaase where they were talking to him about his win with the 400 Cleveland in emc. The reporter said that some say the cleveland block has many attributes the same as oldsmobile and that the tec came with knudson from gm?? Kaase replied he wasn't sure about that but any modern winning head design takes its ques from the Cleveland in one form or another!!
 

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I don't know.......both look like a morphed version of the Flat Head to me.....just saying.
More than likely from flatty. It is interesting that if chebby and dodge built these engines first why did they not make power. Why was chrysler not the first car to make a million in one season like Elliot?? Why was the chevy not handicapped with nearly 350lbs pounds of added weight in prostock to make if fair for the rest? Why are canted clevelands banned from nearly every dirt oval sanctioning body? The truth is cause they didn't make power like the cleveland plain and simple!!
 

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You ain’t still on that 350# shit are ya? The only engines that had the 350# break over the Cleveland, were the big block Fords, and small block wedge headed Fords. Ford had zero to do with the development of the 15 degree WEDGE head, Chevy came up with, and trust me, it was all they wanted. In fact, in wedge iron head only classes, Ford had to come up with the 10 degree head, (that never came out on a factory produced engine) just to keep up with the 55 year old 23 degree head of Chevy. Again, when they had a real small block Pro Stock class like Pro Stock Truck, and IHRA Factory Modified, show me where, and what engine dominated. And yes, the Cleveland was legal in both. And in Factory Modified, Chevy ONLY had a wedge head available. Post it up. The qualifying sheets that is.

Again, I don’t mind arguing intelligent facts, but damn. Don’t put your neck out there just to get your head chopped off.
Bob Glidden said himself they had two choices. Run the pinto chassis and bigger cubes with the weight rule ( which in his words rendered the car uncompetitive! They had to lower cubes to 343 cubes and switch to the longer wheel base to be competitive!! That is when he switched to Fairmont. That put the cleveland at less cubes than the rest of field. Not hard to figure the math out there!
 

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Ive heard all this chevy bs so many times until you get to track. Then its like no damn way thats 357 cubes? And oh wtf iron heads got to be kidding. What that car don't weigh 3000lbs. It cant !! Same ol bullshit from chevy camp.There is no stock cast iron sb head even close to them. My head porter grinds on them all. He now says the airflow to get from cleveland is way easier than anyone's factory head period. No comparison ! I have a set went [email protected] Show me a set of sb heads from any other oem close in cast. ??
 

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They have always flowed big numbers on the bench and run like crap on the track.....it's a shame we don't race flow benches 'eh, the mythical Cleveland would dominate! But in the real world, where flow numbers don't mean as much as you think, little baby headed Chevies are getting the job done ;)
Im not sure what real world you talking?? Mine seem to do just fine against the bigger cubed competition. Dragboss posted earlier on here his 408 cleveland runs mid nines on 3000lb chassis and dynoed 752hp. So id say doing ok.
 

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Your Cleveland has ports and valves as big as my 13* wedge Chevy and makes 1.85hp per cube.....yet my bracket Chevy makes 2.15hp per cube.....figured it out yet?
Im betting you are not using a 1970 block for one !!Every chevy with any hp at our tracks use a aftermarket or over the counter gm updated stronger block. Thats why most guys use clevor setup and instead of true cleveland setup. But that's about to change.
 
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