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When’s the last time PDRA had one of those monsters apart? When is the last time they P&G’d one? I think Douglas may be onto something.....
I will see if I can't get Ken Kershaw to chime in. He is the head Tech Inspector for PDRA. Pretty sure he's on top of the competition over there.

Not to mention I don't think any of the engine builders Musi, Buck, Leonard, Fulton etc would put their integrity on the line with an illegal engine.
 

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Hi,what company sells a PandG tool for nine hundred inches???? maybe douglas knows? since he knows of several big motors in PDRA.He douglas is also accusing some body of cheating.Rgds Robert Hallberg Musi Racing Engines
 

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I say give nitrous cars 959" and 5 forward gears, add in pro charged combos as well. Diversity from a fans stand point breeds excitement. I think that 959" n20 combos being legal would attract more nitrous racers to the nhra races from the other sanctioning bodies in the country. Lets those guys compete more places without having to deal with the different displacement rules. The pro chargers can compete, just a matter of RPM/NHRA working to approve it for the class. Just my .02 from a fans standpoint
 

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In the oultaw world there are some 980" plus motors even a few over 1000" but in PDRA I really doubt it................
 

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If they were hurting for cars, sure let the prochargers in. But clearly they aren't hurting and that will only cause yet another parity headache that is not needed.
 

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If they were hurting for cars, sure let the prochargers in. But clearly they aren't hurting and that will only cause yet another parity headache that is not needed.
Good point.

As a fan, don't slow the cars down. I love seeing 5.60's in good air/tracks. As far as the cost for nitrous cars to switch to 960's? I bet it would've been cheaper for Rickie than switching to turbos. How many nitrous cars are left in the NHRA that we're concerned with the cost? Meanwhile, PDRA has no problem attracting 960ci Pro Nitrous cars.
 

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I talked to a few guys that run the 959" and bigger motors they do not think the motors would live long at all. To much stroke was the common denominator. All said need less weight and that the lock up was a day late dollar short.........
 

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Shrewd Negotiator
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Some of the events I witnessed in the Northeast Region had big qualifying spreads however....I stand corrected as the FACTS you presented show fields were very tight. Thank you for the awesome / detailed info.

Not only do I want my book signed...I would like copy 002 off the press, you can have 001 :p
Being that long ago, what were the causes of these big qualifying spreads you say that you saw? Lifting at 1000'? Tire shake at the hit? Do you even remember such details from that long ago? I'm guessing no. Kinda like how Tim just shot down your statement that spreads were 'often' 1-2 seconds difference. If you were wrong about that, how likely is it that you remember exact details to be able to say these guys were off the pace because they were slow and not because they aborted a run or whatever the reason may have been?
 

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Discussion Starter #56
Being that long ago, what were the causes of these big qualifying spreads you say that you saw? Lifting at 1000'? Tire shake at the hit? Do you even remember such details from that long ago? I'm guessing no. Kinda like how Tim just shot down your statement that spreads were 'often' 1-2 seconds difference. If you were wrong about that, how likely is it that you remember exact details to be able to say these guys were off the pace because they were slow and not because they aborted a run or whatever the reason may have been?
Once again... I stand corrected, was wrong, my memory has served me too well. Tim set the record straight - I learned something and that's one of the reasons why I love this forum. We got great people here many who have closely watched the Pro Mod Class since its inception.

Perhaps the main point that I was trying to convey...NHRA Qualified fields have been very tight ....not much separating #1 from #16. The racing has been very competitive and hats off to both our Racing Associations & the Teams that are giving it their all to be competitive.
 

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I had an extensive conversation with Rickie about the 903 vs 959 in Dallas at Haney's race. The issue is that a lot of the parts for a 959 will not swap from a 903. Even Rickie's cost of some of the stuff to be able to run a 959 isn't cost effective. You can only get the cars so light as well. We can't in any way compare the N2O pro mods of PDRA, MWPMS, NEOPMA, NMCA, or anywhere else to NHRA legal Pro Mods. First off is the quarter mile racing vs eighth-mile racing. Then we look at all the added shit that you have to have in the car to run NHRA vs. anywhere else.
Fact is that they need to give the nitrous competitors something or they will be gone. Bob Rahaim and Chad Green are two of the very few that you will see running the juice during the 2019 season. So unless NHRA does something to bring everything in line, eventually NHRA Pro Mod will be Turbo, Roots Blower, and Procharger.
 

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1-2 Seconds??? LOL. Ive worked on a list of just over 700 different Pro Modified cars from 1990 to 2018. This was done from the help of being able to get IHRA car numbers and help from some major sources inside of the class. There was 25-30 cars that were not legal for the IHRA, USSC and Super Chevy which were the 3 biggest players in the 90's. There was Quick 8 racing all over the south and into Texas and those cars and drivers were never seen unless you lived in those areas. Ronnie Sox told me years before he passed that he made $25,000-$30,000 a month doing booked in match races. And they amount of money guys like Sox, Carpenter, Cannon, Wizner, Vandergriff and Earle made off of hats, hat pins, tshirts and posters these guys were making more money to make 2 passes a race than what you get paid to win a whole event now.

Here's some of the good ones from back in the day. BTW The book Ive been working on The History of Pro Modified is in its final stages and I have a meeting with a publisher next month. And the forward page of the book is gonna be by a pretty well known man that's been around to see it all from the start ;). Ill get you a copy soon as I can get things running off the press. Been a real pain let me tell you. You've taking of me well at your races so its the least I can do is give you a copy. Hell I may even sign it LOL.

Here's some of the notes from the one file.

The very first EVER Pro Mod race at Darlington 1990 had 27 cars. #1 was Mike Ashley in the Beretta going [email protected] and Ronnie Sox who had problems on every run went [email protected] to get in #16. Asley broke and against Sox 1st round and Ronnie still having issues picked up to [email protected] 2nd round Sox picked up again to [email protected] Sox had to lift after getting out of shape but picked up in the 60 quicker than he ever ran with the new car. I remember being at his trailer and they were thinking it would've went around 7.05. McAmis moved on to run low ET of the race [email protected] Ed Hoover raced Tim in the finals and got the win going [email protected] while Tim broke on the starting line. Hoover got the first official win in the class. This was by far the biggest spread in the field ever. A good number of cars at the first race that ended up in P/M later in the season were still racing Top Sportsman.

The Eastern Nationals at Atco was a good race. And a strange one! 23 cars. #1 Mike Ashley [email protected] Ashley ran the fastest MPH for a P/M on a 6.88 run going 213! Killer Brooks #2 [email protected] #3 was Eddie Harris blown Firebird [email protected] Micheal Martin got his first 6 second pass going 6.95 and McAmis followed with a [email protected] Fred Hahn came in #6 going 6.97. Cannon goes his first 6 second pass at [email protected] and #16 being Stanley Barker in the blown Monte Carlo going [email protected] making this race the quickest field in the new class after its 6th event. The finals saw Hahn and Blake Wiggins. Hahn turned the light on going 6.977 and Wiggins trailed to a [email protected] Wiggins protested the win and Hahn was found to be illegal at first THEN found legal! Tommy Howes ran in Top Sportsman and went [email protected] Rumors went around that Howes was found not to be legal but after what happen to Hahn some say he was 100% in line with how Hahn was. Oh well!

By the season ending race of 1990 #1 was [email protected] and #16 was [email protected]


July 1991 Carolina Nationals 1/8th mile national event. 24 cars. Bill Kuhlmann was #1 [email protected] and Ronnie Hood [email protected] Cannon went top MPH of the race going 165.37 and Kuhlmann low ET at 4.432. Cannon won in the finals over Hoover.

Bristol 91 was a good one. Randy Moore in the blown Lambo was #1 [email protected] and #16 was Blake Wiggins who was a .85-.90 car at every race had problems and went [email protected] Moore had Ed Hoover by a tenth and Hoover went on to win the race.

Jump ahead to 1993 Empire Nationals. 29 cars. Cannon was #1 with a [email protected] in the blown Vette. #16 Ed Burnley [email protected] Steve Johnson, Roy Wasko, Brian Gahm and Chuck Van Valles all had problems and never made it down the track. Carl Moyer who came in at #10 at [email protected] went low ET and top MPH [email protected]! Halsey picked the pace up a lot and went [email protected] in rounds 2 and 3. Pete Williams also moved into the 70's in round 3 going [email protected] Halsey and Williams final with Williams in the 2nd ONSAT Vette taking the win in a all Vette nitrous final. Williams [email protected] to Halsey's [email protected] Williams was broke up in tears not only over winning his first national event but dedicating the win to his 5 year old daughter who just weeks before was burned very badly in a fire at home.

The 1993 North American Nationals was light on cars with a good number of cars running at a Soft Seal Pro Mod Series at a Super Chevy Show. Only 21 cars with #1 being Cannon's [email protected] and #16's Chad Peterson at [email protected] Low ET of the event was Cannons 6.601 and top MPH was Al Billes 211.26 in his 3rd gen Camaro. The finals saw Cannon go into shake and Wild Bill Kuhlmann in the Summit Corvette taking the win light lifting to a [email protected]

3rd race into 1994 the Spring Nationals at Bristol had 30 cars with Cannon on top once again with a [email protected] for #1. Brian Gahm came in #16 with a [email protected] 20 cars in the 6's and big names like Tommy Hunt, McAmis, Castellana, Newlee and Westfall all didn't make it in. As quick as these 5 had gone the bump would've easily been low .80s. In the end Carl Moyer got the win over Halsey.

The 94 World Nationals at Norwalk had 29 cars with #1 being held by Carl Moyer's [email protected] Chad Peterson was on the bump with a [email protected] in the 68 Chevelle. Pat Moore would get top MPH with a run of 210.97. In the finals Pat Moore driving Larry Nance's Catch 22 Camaro got the win over FL's Tom Nixon. Moore goes [email protected] to Nixon's [email protected] Nixon's Grand Prix was one of the only 105 WB cars running in P/M.

1994 Fall Nationals at Bristol had 29 cars with Cannon going #1 running [email protected] #2 was Shannon Jenkins in Norman Estes Vette running [email protected] John Scialpi in his 57 Chevy from CA was on the bump going [email protected] In the finals Jenkins would get the win over Chris Hunt's Tommy Mauney built 94 Camaro running [email protected] to Hunts [email protected]

The 1996 Spring Nationals at Bristol had 39 cars. Cannon was on top at [email protected] while Carl Moyer was on the bump at [email protected] 27 cars ran in the 6's. The finals saw Cannons blown 63 Vette get the win over Brad Jeter's nitrous 63 Vette. [email protected] for Cannon and [email protected] for Jeter.

The very next race of 96 the Empire Nationals with 36 cars. Cannon AGAIN #1 with a [email protected] Carl Moyer on the bump again with a [email protected] 25 cars ran into the 6's. Jenkins #2 with a [email protected] would go to the finals to face Cannon. Jenkins gets the win with a [email protected] while Cannon had problems shutting off early to a [email protected]

The 8th race of 96 The World Nationals at Scribner, NE was always lighter on cars with Races from 2 other series the same weekend but on the east coast keeping some cars from going. 22 cars with Jenkins #1 at [email protected] and Chris Hunt #16 at [email protected] Only 3 blown cars made the field. Greg Aitkins 68 Nova made it in with a 6.784. Cannon goes top MPH at 210 but fell in the 2nd round to Pat Moore. Brad Jeter puts Moore out to meet Jenkins in the finals. Jeter for the win running [email protected] to Jenkins off pace [email protected]

The 9th race of 96 had a good field of 43 cars. Cannon #1 running [email protected] while Tommy Gray, Ken Regenthal and Jenkins followed all in the 6.50s. Pat Moore was on the bump going [email protected] 33 cars ran into the 6 second zone. Don Fegley who also raced Top Dragster with the quickest and fastest nitrous car in the class at the time made his way to the finals to face Jenkins in the Parson Brothers Willys. Jenkins goes .47 light to Fegley's .44 and goes [email protected] to a [email protected]

The last race of 1996 at Darlington had 40 cars. Cannon goes #1 with a [email protected] followed by Jeter's [email protected] for #2. The following 7 drivers all ran in the 6.50s. Mike Janis made it in #16 with a [email protected] #28 was Charles Spires running [email protected] Cannon ran in the .40s in the 2nd and 3rd rounds going into the finals to face Jenkins who ran .53 .60 .57 to make it to the final round. .44 light for Cannon and .42 for Jenkins but the blower was just to much for Jenkins to hold off. Cannon goes [email protected] to Jenkins [email protected] Cannon picked up his 5th Championship in the 6th year of the class. $28,000 check for the championship plus the check for the race win and a sizable bonus from ON-SAT owner Doug Brown. Add is all the match race wins plus some outlaw races down south Scotty and the boys were unstoppable in 96.

On a side note Scotty also became the first door car in the 6.20s during the 96 season in match race trim. Oct 5th at MIR Scotty match raced Hahn in Oddys 37 Chevy in a best 2 out of 3. Cannon bolted on a High-Helix blower and at LEGAL IHRA weight ran [email protected]! Victor Bray in Australia who had gone [email protected] with a High-Helix and a all aluminum Hemi which was not legal for IHRA competition at the time. Cannon was headed to Australia to match race Bray but had to cancel due to damage done to all of his
engines chasing the 5th championship in IHRA. Johnny Rocca took his place and made the trip.

Darlington 97 had 50 cars in P/M. 34 of didn't race on Sunday. #1 was Todd Tutterow in the Don Plemmons owned 63 [email protected] #16 was Wally Stroupe [email protected] #32 was Mitch Stout [email protected] 41 cars ran quicker than 6.99 and through #50 it was 5 cars between 7.000 and 7.009. and the last 5 cars all had problems with Steve Gabriel being the slowest going [email protected]
I remember a lot of close racing in the early 90s. In 93 with Kuhlmann we went in the high 50s or maybe 6Os at Norwalk. We also were the first to run in the 30s and Houston Super Chevy on a borrowed Helix blower from Mark Thomas.
 

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Discussion Starter #60
Gainsville 2019 was awesome... I would have like to have seen a Nitrous car run in the 5.60's.

NHRA just gave 25lb weight break to the NOS Cars....I don't believe it will help.

Now is the time to consider allowing 959 CI motor...even if it won't take effect til gainsville 2020. Keep it fair, keep it interesting and keep N20 Teams coming....let the 959 In NHRA Pro MOD !!
 
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