[turbo fox]

Ok here's the breakdown I'm going to run e85 once I get my junk finished but there is on 2 stations that sell e85 within a 30 mile radius. So with that being said and me be a cheap ass Im just going to make it at home. Since I'm going to do this now I will have access to pure ethanol and from my research I can probably get it as close to 99%. So my main question is what are pros and cons on running e100 over e85.

 

[Rick Finsta]

100% Ethanol requires taxes paid and the keeping of a bound book documenting that it was not consumed (used industrially) in order to get the taxes refunded. The regulatory difference between denatured (or SDA) grade Ethanol and 95-100% USP grade is a huge hurdle. I can't imagine you will save money handling consumable ethanol versus E85, especially with the subsidies on the latter (so you're already paying for it - might as well use it!).

If you were serious in using the term "moonshine," then may I humbly suggest you not post your intentions in a public forum?

ETA: not to mention I would hazard to guess there are emulsifying agents added to E85 to keep the gasoline and ethanol mixed with small (less than 0.2% IIRC?) water content from humidity and such.

 

[turbo fox]

Calling It Moonshine was just my way of getting people to actually look at the post but you have a point lol. I have filled out all the legal paperwork to make it and from what I've read the tax the is implemented is only on drinkable alcohol so if I make it and add 1 to 2% fuel I can get away without having to pay alcohol tax which isn't that much after you do the math I work at a port that imports fruit so I can gat spoiled fruit by the ton for free. So in that sense I still do the math and come up with fuel at less then $1.00 per gallon (not including the cost of electronic to heat the still). Plus I can still a ply for the tax rebates associated with it. I really just want to know what are the benefits of e85 over pure ethanol.

 

[cam406406]

Going to have too run it through the still 3-4 times to be pure

 

[Deer Assassin]

Simple answer, in my opinion NOT VERY WELL!...lol

The Ethanol will light by spark, just not well, thats why they have winter and summer blends.... the gasoline is put there to light the mix.
you can get E98 to light by introducing less fuel, and it will light and burn just fine.

We have done testing from 98% down to 70%...
you can take 87% and make the same if not more power.

Too often people get the mentality of this is good so this has to be better...simply NOT TRUE!

in all the testing we have done, 87% (in the right A/F mix) made the most power of all the ethanol blends from 70% to 98%.

So far this year we have burned 9 drums of fuel, only one was for the race car...we are constantly doing R&D to find the best blend, combination, calibration, and carburetor that we could possibly have.

While others quit when they have something that works, were working on perfection.

from another thread

 

[Green Vette]

from another thread

I understand what he is saying about lighting the fuel, but lets say
your running msd10 or mag44. Would the e99 make more power
or atleast be able to make more safer power.

 

[turbo fox]

That's what I want to know I'm running a a holley efi after the cold start up would it be better to run not necessarily from a power stand point but from a reliability stand point cause to me it's not about how much power I can make its about how much power I can reliably make if I make 800 to the rear then I will be content I just want to be able to not have to worry about it

 

[tittan1500]

have you ever made a batch of shine?

I know a guy who has done some big batches. Even if you have 6, 55. GAL drums rotating and fermenting you will be hard presses to keep up with the demands of racing every other weekend.

not to mention its not easy and it takes alot of time! between the cost of operating and your time your going to be way behind on money

 

[Drag Chevette]

I understand what he is saying about lighting the fuel, but lets say
your running msd10 or mag44. Would the e99 make more power
or atleast be able to make more safer power.

So the box lights the fuel or the coil?

I hear that stuff all the time, " have have an 8 box and a blaster coil, its fine!"......NOT!

While ignition boxes do help, what your missing is the burn rate of Ethanol vs the other fuels.

In testing we have done we have found that 87% is the absolute best blend that can be run, More power, cleaner burn, and more effecient.... and we have tested from E30 to E98.

 

[Rick Finsta]

Mark, since we're on the topic, what are your thoughts on this:

I've read literature espousing there is basically no difference in octane rating (and therefore detonation resistance) between E50 and E85, but there may be more danger of preignition with leaner mixtures. Here in WI we're getting into Class 4 "E85" this time of year (in fact that's what we have for about half the year based on the federal guidelines) which can be down around that 50-55% mark from my understanding. I get that the popularity (or lack thereof) in different areas will affect the actual pump mixture as the USTs are filled, but I'd like to plan for the "Worst Case" scenario.

Can I safely run E50 in an 11.5:1 compression iron headed motor running a "5" heat NGK plug, without detonation or preignition concerns, and are there AFR stipulations you would add to your answer? It is taking me awhile to build my AFR table for my EFI and I want to make sure I'm not way off base.

Thanks!

 

[turbo fox]

Ok thanks drag that's the kind of answer I'm looking for
Now the next question I have is what would the afr I should be shooting for at pot and wot to be safe. I am new the the tuning on my own

 

[Drag Chevette]

Rick, at 11.5:1 you can probably get by with 50% but don't look for power gains there, the 50% doesn't do much for power. 87% has yielded the best power of ALL the blends in testing we have done.

Turbo, AFR answers can be found here:
http://marksullense85.proboards.com/thread/123/lambda-air-fuel-mix-tuning

 

[turbo fox]

Thanks drag very helpful.