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It always seems like the guys who you think are so happy and cutting up all the time that kills thiem selfs, My Uncle was the nicest, funniest, guy I ever met he was just like Dick Van **** he would be the life of the party, He shot himself in a Confession Booth at his church, didn't find him for 4 days. No Shit. Sorry to all his Bros I know it's Tuff
 

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Thanks for the insight Scott. Glad you could share.
Thanks. Due to TOBT being the land of the "tag line" responses, I doubt more than one or two people will bother to read the post, but as I said, if it helps just one person, it was worth the time it took to write it.
 

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I'm sorry for your loss. No one ever wants to lose a family member for any reason, let alone suicide. But here's a little different take on it, and I hope it doesn't offend anyone. I hope it helps give a bit of perspective.

Your Dad sounds like he was the kind of man every kids dreams of having for a father. He shared his knowledge, and he taught you how to be a better person, and it sounds as though you were very close. If he had enough inner torment to take his own life, the one thing that I would helps to remember, is that wasn't the first time he thought of taking his own life. For anyone who comes to that point, it's never the first time they've thought about it. In reality, the only thing that kept them from doing it sooner was their love for the ones who love them.

The "perspective" part I'm talking about is to remember the time you had before he left often took every ounce of strength he had, and that time was far harder for them to give than it would have been for most. Depression is a chemical imbalance in the brain and it's not something people who have it can control. Think of it in terms of there not being any happiness or joy to found in anything you do anymore. The best sex, the fastest car, biggest house, the most money, nothing can bring you joy or make you happy anymore. Despair is all that's left, despite all your blessings. This is why nearly all people with clinical depression, and especially bi-polar disorder have had bouts of alcohol and/or drug abuse (especially those who are undiagnosed). They are simply trying to numb themselves to a point where just getting through the day is bearable. For your Father, taking his own life, while selfish to you and your family, was probably the one truly selfish thing he ever did, after giving selflessly for the 20+ years prior, despite the inner darkness and despair he felt.

Clinical depression is nothing like being bummed when a family member dies, or your wife leaves for someone else, or you lose your job and can't provide for your family. That's depression, but not the clinical, chemical imbalance kind. Being bummed about circumstances is not the same as when you have brain chemistry that doesn't give you a choice. Being bummed about something that happened IS something you can decide to "pull up your boot straps", or "man up" and try to move on, and most of the time, with the help of good friends, people can get past it ... it's just life.

With a chemical imbalance, the world becomes a very negative place. Everything seems to get you down. You hear all the time when someone takes their own life: "so many of us reached out to him/her, and it just seemed like we couldn't reach them". This is the truth. The reality of the person on the other end is, they wish more than anything they could find the light to guide them out of the darkness and despair they are feeling. They are tormented beyond anyone's wildest imagination by thoughts of "letting them down" (the people who care about them). The people who think it's "cowardly", or "how could they just GIVE UP like that?", or "how could they have been so selfish", have no idea the absolute PIT of despair a clinically depressed person has endured, and how long they've endured it in order to finally make the choice to end their suffering.

I've been to that pit of despair in cycles since I was in my teens. Once in particular, in my 20's, it was only the thought of my son and daughter thinking it was their fault, or that they had done something wrong, or they were somehow to blame that made me reach out for help. Unless you've been there, and live with clinical depression as part of your day to day life, no one can imagine in their wildest nightmares what it's like. I'm 50 years old and I've been through so many cycles of doing well on meds and then feeling like "I'm ok now", and stop taking them, only to end up back worse than the last time, only to finally see what's happening and realize I can't survive without the meds.

There are great times when I can clearly see all the many blessings I have and how, compared to the vast majority of world, I live a charmed life. But when depression sets in, all those good things that are right in my face, disappear into a downward spiral of despair and suddenly all I can see is negativity and darkness, and when people reach out it only seems to make the sadness worse because I want more than anything to be happy again, but despite friends and family reaching out, I can't see anything but what a burden I am when I'm like that and only negative thoughts will come.

I live alone, and it's for a reason. I know myself well enough to realize that what happened to "underatree"'s dad could happen to me at any time. I don't want anyone close to me around if it ever comes to that. Not to mention, even when on the surface you might seem to be doing well to many around you, you often withdraw, to keep those who care from seeing you in that dark place, which is something you can't hide from someone who lives with you, and invariably, they think it's something they've done, or it's somehow their fault, or in some cases, they just think your an asshole, when in reality you wish with every fiber of your being you could just be normal. I won't put another woman through living with me and my moods.

After you've lived with it for enough years, with treatment, you develop some survival instincts that help you better see when things are becoming overly negative without rational cause. Still, sometimes the feeling of despair just swallows you up, and if it happens too fast for your rational mind to register what's happening, you will lay down and not get up, and not by choice. It's not about the people around you. The reality is, in most cases it's only the love and kindness of these people who have kept you from ending your suffering sooner.

People only want to focus on the one solitary selfish act of a person who ends their life, and they fail to realize how selfless they had to be, suffering in silence for years on end, only for those around them, before finally doing something to ease their pain. I can assure anyone reading this, those who make the choice to end their suffering NEVER EVER do it without great torment and anguish over how the people in their lives will be effected. People would do well to realize that the torment the mind can inflict on the human spirit is far greater than any physical pain we can suffer.

I hope maybe by sharing something deeply personal to me, some of the people who don't understand (clinical) depression might gain at least a little better understanding of what it's like for those who have to deal with it. I've been in a little better place with it over the last year or so, so it's with some reluctance I talk about this on a public forum (especially one where the post will be here forever), but if it gives some peace to just one person who has lost a loved one or friend who has never been able to understand why they could do such a thing, then it was worth it.
Thank You, for being so honest and forth coming and unselfish. Would be an honor to shake your hand.
 

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Great post Scott. A friend of mines mother shot herself earlier this year and it hit close to home. Thanks for sharing and giving us some insight. Good luck with your daily battle.
 

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Great post Scott. A friend of mines mother shot herself earlier this year and it hit close to home. Thanks for sharing and giving us some insight. Good luck with your daily battle.
The post was for people like yourself who were left without answers, only questions. I hope it helps you understand a little better.

I wish people didn't have so many incorrect stereo types about clinical depression. Just knowing there is difference between depression brought on by circumstance, vs. depression that comes from a chemical imbalance is good starting point for breaking down some of the stereotypes.

I hope the post finds it's way to Flip's friends and helps them to understand a little better and maybe give them some peace of mind and know their friend was every bit the friend they believed him to be, despite the end he chose.
 

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it's easy to call someone a coward when your on the outside looking in, but Depression is a powerful illness and it can make even the most successful well liked people feel worthless and have no reason to continue on. I used to think along the same lines as many here but after suffering a short period of depression and having thoughts about ending it i can now say i have a new respect for people who suffer from it.
THANK YOU:smt023
 

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Well said...


RIP . It sucks to loose anyone, especially by their own hand. I used to think it was the stupidest, most selfish thing that anyone could ever do. It may also be the bravest. Everyone has their demons they have had to face. I guess some people's just scream louder than other's. That inner scream can really suck. I guess we should all think of those friends who seem to be on the fringe all the time. Maybe the one who always seems happy and never seems upset or like there ever is a problem, always joking or cutting up. He may be the most at risk guy. Maybe he's the one you call only when you need to borrow a torque wrench or only stop by when you need something. You know the guy you tell all your other friends about, (he's a great friend, I just talked to him, it was about borrowing a wrench) He's the guy that comes running anytime you call for help and may never ask you for help, but when he does ask on those rare occasions, you always seem to have something else going on or don't have the time. Maybe that is the guy you should call today, just to see how they are doing. Take them out for a drink or go to dinner just to be their friend, not because it's a convienent day or because you need to return his sawsall. Maybe by the loss of someone who seemed like they had it all together but inside was a volcano ready to burst, maybe because of that we can just draw our friends together just a little more to show them we care and love them by just being there. It's amazing what a friendship and the love of a friend can do to the voice of a demon. Be there as a friend for a friend and maybe we won't have to see a person so together come apart. Just my .02 I have a friend I need to call.
 

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Rip Flip! Don't know if anyone said anything about raising money for Flip's family but I will thinking it may be a good idea to sell $100 raffle tickets for Flip's Elcamino. I am sure with all his friends and fans of the show would be interested in owning a piece of the show and to benefit his family he has left behind. Plus to own one Badass car! Just a thought!

The slut officially belongs to Chief, now.
 

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Well said from scotts87lx. Nobody really knows what its like unless they live with it. Its hereditary in my family, sadly
 

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RIP . It sucks to loose anyone, especially by their own hand. I used to think it was the stupidest, most selfish thing that anyone could ever do. It may also be the bravest. Everyone has their demons they have had to face. I guess some people's just scream louder than other's. That inner scream can really suck.

I guess we should all think of those friends who seem to be on the fringe all the time. Maybe the one who always seems happy and never seems upset or like there ever is a problem, always joking or cutting up. He may be the most at risk guy.

Maybe he's the one you call only when you need to borrow a torque wrench or only stop by when you need something. You know the guy you tell all your other friends about, (he's a great friend, I just talked to him, it was about borrowing a wrench)

He's the guy that comes running anytime you call for help and may never ask you for help, but when he does ask on those rare occasions, you always seem to have something else going on or don't have the time. Maybe that is the guy you should call today, just to see how they are doing. Take them out for a drink or go to dinner just to be their friend, not because it's a convenient day or because you need to return his sawsall.

Maybe by the loss of someone who seemed like they had it all together but inside was a volcano ready to burst, maybe because of that we can just draw our friends together just a little more to show them we care and love them by just being there. It's amazing what a friendship and the love of a friend can do to the voice of a demon.

Be there as a friend for a friend and maybe we won't have to see a person so together come apart. Just my .02 I have a friend I need to call.
YOU sir, "get it". That's the kind of post this thread needs more of.
 

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YOU sir, "get it". That's the kind of post this thread needs more of.
Scott, that was from the heart of someone on the inside looking out. It's kindof how I would hope my friends and family would be with me. Seems like sometimes, no matter how much you yell for help or ask for someone to just be there, when you really need it, no one is available or hears you scream. Can't tell you how many times I've been there for friends when they needed someone, or how many times I've almost begged for "friends" to be around when I needed them. Your insight sheds a lot of light on things for people who think we should "just get over it". I admire people like you who can come here and open your heart for everyone to see with something so personal. I wish you the strength to continue forging ahead. Know that a small piece of everyone who read what you spoke from your heart will be there with you, always, in thanks for shining light on a horrible problem.
 

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Scott,

Thank you for your post and your candidness. I have lived as a second party to depression in both my father and my sister. To add to the problem my dad is a Vietnam vet and I have seen the absolute absence of joy in he and my sister for many years, he turned 64 this past Sunday. I have one question that you may have no answer to but you may at least have some insight on. You mentioned about how almost every cd sufferer will get leveled out on meds and then think they are better just to quit the meds and what follows. Do you have any thought on not only why this is so common but also what triggers it and is there something to help overcome this process. I would do anything to help either of them but as you expressed in your post there is only so much an "outsider" can do. As a person of faith I pray for them and offer whatever encouraging truth I feel might be appropriate but I know theirs is a battle fought from within. Thanks again for opening your heart and I pray that you will find the freedom of a peaceful existence.
 

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Scott,

Thank you for your post and your candidness. I have lived as a second party to depression in both my father and my sister. To add to the problem my dad is a Vietnam vet and I have seen the absolute absence of joy in he and my sister for many years, he turned 64 this past Sunday. I have one question that you may have no answer to but you may at least have some insight on. You mentioned about how almost every cd sufferer will get leveled out on meds and then think they are better just to quit the meds and what follows. Do you have any thought on not only why this is so common but also what triggers it and is there something to help overcome this process. I would do anything to help either of them but as you expressed in your post there is only so much an "outsider" can do. As a person of faith I pray for them and offer whatever encouraging truth I feel might be appropriate but I know theirs is a battle fought from within. Thanks again for opening your heart and I pray that you will find the freedom of a peaceful existence.
Something very much worthy of note. When you are not on meds, you have times when you are very happy. The problem is, you can never be quite THAT happy when you are on meds. You can get an inflated sense of confidence, or just be in a mode where ordinary things like a great song coming on the radio make you feel like you are so happy you could jump over a building.

Bipolar people in particular will go on and off meds because they can no longer get the "high" (emotionally) of being manic. Mania is the feeling of happiness I just described, only super inflated ("on steroids", if you will). Even with pure clinical depression (i.e. NOT bipolar), you can get emotional highs when going through a good spell while off meds. If you add some recreational drugs, or steroids to that emotional high and you have something close to mania. People with normal brain chemistry can't experience the level of euphoria that mania provides.

After a while on meds, you tend to feel stifled. On meds you'll hear people say things like "I'm not dead, but I don't feel alive either". Abnormal brain chemistry is a blessing and curse in that way. You get to feel emotional highs that normal people can't, but the lows that always follow the highs are horrible and even deadly. It's the draw of the natural emotional high that often lures people off their meds.

Every person on earth wants to feel and be able to function normally. It's bad enough if people know you have chemical imbalance, because there is so much negative stigma attached. "He's crazy", "dangerous", "unstable", and a host of other derogatory labels. Taking medication can turn a person with a miserable existence into someone very normal and well adjusted.

Unfortunately, it takes time and some trial and error for Dr's to find the right med, or combo of meds to work for a particular individual. Sadly, a lot of people never make it past the family MD (doctor). Occasionally, the family Doc's get lucky and find something that will help, or at least suffice. However it normally takes a full blown Psychiatrist to come to the best medication solution.

The other part I didn't mention before is, regardless of the depression being brought on by circumstance or chemical imbalance, ANY Psychiatrist is going to recommend (if not REQUIRE) their patient to spend some time with a Psychologist. Again, unless the person has lived with it for a number of years, the thought of seeing a "shrink" just adds to the feeling they are somehow not normal, and for the uneducated idiots who want to label everything and everyone, it's just another reason to call someone crazy.

I want to be very clear about something here. I'm only talking about people with clinical depression, or bi-polar disorder. Schizophrenics stop taking their meds because they make them feel less than themselves, or "cloudy" or subdued. I have no experience with that, so I'll leave that alone, I just thought it important to mention that Schizophrenia is a whole different thing.

I've gone on and off meds for the reasons I described above. When I get to a good place on meds, I just feel normal. At my age, I'm much more aware of the consequences of going off my meds. I don't want to have to take them, but I've learned that I only go back to a place I don't enjoy being when I'm off them.

I wish I had an easy fix for the problem, but the only way (for me) to NOT go off meds, is just to finally have enough of the horrible experience of being off them to motivate me to stay on them. I don't think anyone outside the person themselves can make that choice. Personally I hate having to depend on meds, but I hate the alternative even more, but it took dozens if not hundreds of cycles of getting on and back off and back on meds to finally get me to the point where I was willing to stay with "the program". I guess I just reached a point in my life where the fleeting highs of mania are not worth the crushing "pit of despair" depression that ALWAYS, WITHOUT EXCEPTION follows a manic episode. The lows just aren't worth the highs to me anymore.

BTW, I don't drink or do any recreational drugs anymore either due to the fact that they total screw up my already screwed up brain chemistry. I used to self medicate to cope, but I learned (also the HARD WAY) that never seems to end well. If your father or sister drink or do any recreational drugs, they are not helping themselves in the bigger picture. It may numb them at the moment, but they are keeping their brain chemistry in flux so meds can't do their work.

I hope that helps your understanding.
 

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Just watched the premier of Street Outlaws and Flip definitely seemed like a pretty humble guy, I heard it said once that suicide wasn't a moment of weakness rather a moment of strength for the tormented.
Very true.... RIP Flip
 

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......
People only want to focus on the one solitary selfish act of a person who ends their life, and they fail to realize how selfless they had to be, suffering in silence for years on end, only for those around them, before finally doing something to ease their pain. I can assure anyone reading this, those who make the choice to end their suffering NEVER EVER do it without great torment and anguish over how the people in their lives will be effected. People would do well to realize that the torment the mind can inflict on the human spirit is far greater than any physical pain we can suffer.

...
Thank you for your openness, it was very well said and you made an excellent point, Scott..

BTW, I always take the time to read your posts, regardless of how lengthy :rolleyes: they might be. As I consider you one of the wisest members on this forum who puts a lot of time, thought and effort into his responses..:prayer:
 
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