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Current rules allow Outlaw 10.5 class rules allow partipants to run either a Radial tire or a 10.5 W tire. Over the last 2 seasons we have more & more events featuring radial vs 10.5 within same class. As a fan of the Outlaw 10.5 class I have several questions regarding rules that allow this to take place. Despite not running this class I still feel it is OK to ask general questions & to share an opinion on such. Over the years my own opinions on various rule packages were NOT always in line with Majorities and in those cases I always thought majority rule should decide any rule questions. Nobody is right all the time & I have been on the wrong side of many drag racing arguments over the last 20+ years.

With regard to Outlaw 10.5 class rule that PERMITS Radial tire in class I have several questions for the Outlaw 10.5 community.

1) prior to Radial Tires being permitted in Outlaw 10.5 was there a public discussion among members of the Outlaw 10.5 class to see how existing 10.5 teams felt about allowing Radials in ?? If yes can someone provide a link to this discussion as I would like to see what points were made. Also NOT that is was required but I will ask - was there a Vote taken among 10.5 class teams to allow radials in ?? Did rule makers have a comment period to discuss allowing radials in ?


2) the wonderful thing about Outlaw 10.5 has always been who can "Get it done" on a 10.5 Tire ... The common thing on all cars in the class was the tire. So I ask - is allowing a different type tire ( RADIAL ) go for the class ???

3) should all teams / all power adders be required to run on the same Type Tire ?

4) would requiring ALL Outlaw 10.5 Teams to run on 10.5 tire harm the class ??

5) Would it be Unfair to require radial Teams wanting to run in Outlaw 10.5 class events to run a 10.5 Tire ?

6) if radial teams were required to run Outlaw 10.5 Tires when running in Outlaw 10.5 class would that make them LESS competitive ?? Can a radial tire car run same et with 10.5 Tire at 10.5 class events ??

7) Has Outlaw 10.5 class lost teams to radial since new rules allowing radials ??

8) if a radial team resets Outlaw 10.5 class ET Record does it count as 10.5 record ?


Final Opinion: in my opinion I feel Outlaw 10.5 class competitors ALL should be required to run on 10.5w Tires. I feel this because:

A) the class was founded & built on the concept of all teams running on same tire.

B) the class is called Outlaw 10.5 for a reason.

C) Sadly many Outlaw 10.5 Teams have gone radial ....I have NO problem with any 10.5 Team strapping on Radials to run at Radial events ....I just wish teams running Outlaw 10.5 events would run 10.5 tires.

D) I LOVE radial Tire teams, I love radial tire events & I often dream of running radial tire class again one day .... Please don't mistake my feelings about Outlaw 10.5 rules as a slight to Radial programs - this is NOT the case.

E) as previously noted if the majority of outlaw 10.5 teams are OK With radials being permitted in Outlaw 10.5 class then I too will accept such. I have been wrong many times in my life and may be wrong here to. I would love to know how current Outlaw teams feel about this.

F) I understand the 2017 season is already underway so any tire rule change probably should have been addressed over winter ....for 2018 I believe if a team wants to run Outlaw 10.5 events then come on 10.5 Tires & show the World what you can do with them.

Thank you.

David Hance
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You bring up a lot of good points but I'm still stuck on limited tire but traction control is allowed. I guess this is the way of racing now.
 

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Some great questions here Dave...we have been running both classes for the past 3 years and can see first hand what is going on. My guess on why radials were let into 10.5 ( im sure someone will correct me if wrong ) was to try and help car count period. car count has suffered the past few years in 10.5 for various reasons and one may be the big draw of 3.70 212 mph runs with $50k purses but i think that was mostly bad timing for teams. I want clarify before giving an opinion that we will race either rule set on any track because we love to race but 10.5 should stay 10.5 as there is too much difference in the tires to run against each other fairly when one has the advantage the other doesn't unless you have a one off race like YB where it worked ok last year and the racing was tight having conditions that let that happen. I understand the car count thing too well but having run both tires on their respective preps/rule sets would prefer they stay separate as you are doing 10.5 no favor in letting radial's in other than car count...again clarifying that we will show up and race what ever is in the other lane.

To answer a few questions/give opinion see below:


2) the wonderful thing about Outlaw 10.5 has always been who can "Get it done" on a 10.5 Tire ... The common thing on all cars in the class was the tire. So I ask - is allowing a different type tire ( RADIAL ) go for the class ??? not really

3) should all teams / all power adders be required to run on the same Type Tire ? yes

4) would requiring ALL Outlaw 10.5 Teams to run on 10.5 tire harm the class ?? as long as we have car count definitely no harm

5) Would it be Unfair to require radial Teams wanting to run in Outlaw 10.5 class events to run a 10.5 Tire ?in theory it is 100% fair including all weight breaks

6) if radial teams were required to run Outlaw 10.5 Tires when running in Outlaw 10.5 class would that make them LESS competitive ??depending on prep yes less competitive Can a radial tire car run same et with 10.5 Tire at 10.5 class events ?? as fast or faster the radial teams wont put the floppy tires back on

7) Has Outlaw 10.5 class lost teams to radial since new rules allowing radials ??maybe a few...wait until they race there for a year and see how they made out

if a radial team resets Outlaw 10.5 class ET Record does it count as 10.5 record ? 100% no...i would already have the SBTT record at 3.92 ( we were 75# over Cecil legal weight just had a radial on )


Final Opinion: in my opinion I feel Outlaw 10.5 class competitors ALL should be required to run on 10.5w Tires. I feel this because:

A) the class was founded & built on the concept of all teams running on same tire. agree

B) the class is called Outlaw 10.5 for a reason. agree

C) Sadly many Outlaw 10.5 Teams have gone radial ....I have NO problem with any 10.5 Team strapping on Radials to run at Radial events ....I just wish teams running Outlaw 10.5 events would run 10.5 tires. agree

D) I LOVE radial Tire teams, I love radial tire events & I often dream of running radial tire class again one day .... Please don't mistake my feelings about Outlaw 10.5 rules as a slight to Radial programs - this is NOT the case.

E) as previously noted if the majority of outlaw 10.5 teams are OK With radials being permitted in Outlaw 10.5 class then I too will accept such. I have been wrong many times in my life and may be wrong here to. I would love to know how current Outlaw teams feel about this. not many teams vocal but think its split 50/50

F) I understand the 2017 season is already underway so any tire rule change probably should have been addressed over winter ....for 2018 I believe if a team wants to run Outlaw 10.5 events then come on 10.5 Tires & show the World what you can do with them. agreed...10.5 teams need to support 10.5 to regain car count
 

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You bring up a lot of good points but I'm still stuck on limited tire but traction control is allowed. I guess this is the way of racing now.
give up on the TC thing....guys running it know its not the end all be all...you do go slower when its on lol....more important things to worry about then limiting technology....the class will never grow without it
 

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Some great questions here Dave...we have been running both classes for the past 3 years and can see first hand what is going on. My guess on why radials were let into 10.5 ( im sure someone will correct me if wrong ) was to try and help car count period. car count has suffered the past few years in 10.5 for various reasons and one may be the big draw of 3.70 212 mph runs with $50k purses but i think that was mostly bad timing for teams. I want clarify before giving an opinion that we will race either rule set on any track because we love to race but 10.5 should stay 10.5 as there is too much difference in the tires to run against each other fairly when one has the advantage the other doesn't unless you have a one off race like YB where it worked ok last year and the racing was tight having conditions that let that happen. I understand the car count thing too well but having run both tires on their respective preps/rule sets would prefer they stay separate as you are doing 10.5 no favor in letting radial's in other than car count...again clarifying that we will show up and race what ever is in the other lane.

To answer a few questions/give opinion see below:


2) the wonderful thing about Outlaw 10.5 has always been who can "Get it done" on a 10.5 Tire ... The common thing on all cars in the class was the tire. So I ask - is allowing a different type tire ( RADIAL ) go for the class ??? not really

3) should all teams / all power adders be required to run on the same Type Tire ? yes

4) would requiring ALL Outlaw 10.5 Teams to run on 10.5 tire harm the class ?? as long as we have car count definitely no harm

5) Would it be Unfair to require radial Teams wanting to run in Outlaw 10.5 class events to run a 10.5 Tire ?in theory it is 100% fair including all weight breaks

6) if radial teams were required to run Outlaw 10.5 Tires when running in Outlaw 10.5 class would that make them LESS competitive ??depending on prep yes less competitive Can a radial tire car run same et with 10.5 Tire at 10.5 class events ?? as fast or faster the radial teams wont put the floppy tires back on

7) Has Outlaw 10.5 class lost teams to radial since new rules allowing radials ??maybe a few...wait until they race there for a year and see how they made out

if a radial team resets Outlaw 10.5 class ET Record does it count as 10.5 record ? 100% no...i would already have the SBTT record at 3.92 ( we were 75# over Cecil legal weight just had a radial on )


Final Opinion: in my opinion I feel Outlaw 10.5 class competitors ALL should be required to run on 10.5w Tires. I feel this because:

A) the class was founded & built on the concept of all teams running on same tire. agree

B) the class is called Outlaw 10.5 for a reason. agree

C) Sadly many Outlaw 10.5 Teams have gone radial ....I have NO problem with any 10.5 Team strapping on Radials to run at Radial events ....I just wish teams running Outlaw 10.5 events would run 10.5 tires. agree

D) I LOVE radial Tire teams, I love radial tire events & I often dream of running radial tire class again one day .... Please don't mistake my feelings about Outlaw 10.5 rules as a slight to Radial programs - this is NOT the case.

E) as previously noted if the majority of outlaw 10.5 teams are OK With radials being permitted in Outlaw 10.5 class then I too will accept such. I have been wrong many times in my life and may be wrong here to. I would love to know how current Outlaw teams feel about this. not many teams vocal but think its split 50/50

F) I understand the 2017 season is already underway so any tire rule change probably should have been addressed over winter ....for 2018 I believe if a team wants to run Outlaw 10.5 events then come on 10.5 Tires & show the World what you can do with them. agreed...10.5 teams need to support 10.5 to regain car count
Last year I said radials and 10.5's shouldnt mix you your leader and Jerry shot me down in flames!!!! Why the change of heart???
 

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You bring up a lot of good points but I'm still stuck on limited tire but traction control is allowed. I guess this is the way of racing now.
give up on the TC thing....guys running it know its not the end all be all...you do go slower when its on lol....more important things to worry about then limiting technology....the class will never grow without it
I know its here to stay but My point is if its allowed why not let whatever tire in, its not like the tire is the limiting factor anymore.

I think the stock wheelbase, stock body dimensions (RVW) are all the fans want to see anymore
 

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Last year I said radials and 10.5's shouldnt mix you your leader and Jerry shot me down in flames!!!! Why the change of heart???
1: Never shot you down in flames... you schmuck!!

2: I am not the leader of 10.5... just trying to help the class continue and grow!!!

3: The car count has sucked for the past 2 years within 10.5. On a slick prepped track, I don't think the radial has an advantage. My support for the radial tire was due to the fact that MT was releasing a radial 10.5 tire that we thought would be out this season. Therefore everyone would all be on radials anyway.

4: For someone that is supposed to support Outlaw 10.5, you sure do talk a lot of shit about those that do nothing but try to help the class grow. Why don't you invest some of your time and money to help the class instead of constantly bashing those that are here to help.


Other than the above...I agree with everything Agostino wrote.
 

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Last year I said radials and 10.5's shouldnt mix you your leader and Jerry shot me down in flames!!!! Why the change of heart???
What was the right thing to do for our 1 event a year? I don't have the run sheets in front of me but I believe there were 33 cars in 10.5 last year.. 10 of which were radial cars.. do you think a 23 car field would have been good for the class or fans? Please offer a solution that would have worked... I'm all ears...
 

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Dave, I hated to do what I did last year but I honestly did not feel there was a choice. How many new comers have come to Outlaw 10.5 as opposed to those who left for whatever reason? For me there was no special meeting, group discussion or approval process.. I simply looked at the 2015 ladder and knew several people would not show due to rebuilding their car, building new car, left the sport or switched the car to radial.. overall IMHO the two classes combined worked!! We ended up with 2 radial and 2 10.5 cars in the semis .. a radial car did win but barely.. it was not a slaughter fest as some had assumed.. it worked and the fans loved it from what I seen. Again I hate the fact this had to be done but as you know one has to deal with reality rather than fantacy when putting on events..

Good thing is we were not getting much pro radial support anyway so I put pro modified in their place... And the fans absolutely loved it. Many in pro radial asked that I put the class back in but rather I combined them with 10.5 and we barely had a bump in the class.. it's simply the sad truth right there..
 

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give up on the TC thing....guys running it know its not the end all be all...you do go slower when its on lol....more important things to worry about then limiting technology....the class will never grow without it
TRUE on the TC! I would love to see 10.5 stay on the bias tire BUT if the car count doesn't support it... I am defiantly excited to be running 10.5 this year, no matter what tire is in the lane next to us.
 

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Last year I said radials and 10.5's shouldnt mix you your leader and Jerry shot me down in flames!!!! Why the change of heart???
well you obviously didnt read my post above....regardless of my opinion that i think 10.5 class should only be run on 10.5's i clearly indicated we didnt have car counts and the one race/year in the right conditions it worked out great like YB...regardless if the racing is fair ( which it was at YB and great rivalry to be honest ) i still think the 10.5 series should run on 10.5's...what ever Monty does he does for the best of the class and race and i support him....
 

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1: Never shot you down in flames... you schmuck!!

2: I am not the leader of 10.5... just trying to help the class continue and grow!!!

3: The car count has sucked for the past 2 years within 10.5. On a slick prepped track, I don't think the radial has an advantage. My support for the radial tire was due to the fact that MT was releasing a radial 10.5 tire that we thought would be out this season. Therefore everyone would all be on radials anyway.

4: For someone that is supposed to support Outlaw 10.5, you sure do talk a lot of shit about those that do nothing but try to help the class grow. Why don't you invest some of your time and money to help the class instead of constantly bashing those that are here to help.


Other than the above...I agree with everything Agostino wrote.
agreed 100%....the amount of time Jerry puts into this thing is all you racers not for himself...please be positive and help not start BS...im sure its easier to say Fxxx this and put radials on himself....
 

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With the new radial 10.5 tire coming out do you think the original 10.5 tire will ever die off and the classes will eventually become combined running under the same tire?
 

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With the new radial 10.5 tire coming out do you think the original 10.5 tire will ever die off and the classes will eventually become combined running under the same tire?
I think that will depend on how good the new tire is in the heat, on a marginal track. If the track is not prepped for radial, I personally think the current slick and the PDR may be equal... YB kind of proved that. If tracks do prep, the PDR will have the advantage.

I think that the direction that RVW headed is going to end the RVW class. The car count has sucked at every race this year except Donald's races. We need to be able to bring those cars (that are still legal for 10.5), back to 10.5. The tire discussion will help that.
 

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I know its here to stay but My point is if its allowed why not let whatever tire in, its not like the tire is the limiting factor anymore.

I think the stock wheelbase, stock body dimensions (RVW) are all the fans want to see anymore
Not totally true. As fans we DONT want to see any DAMN steam rollers! And would LOVE to see some 10.5 racing down here in the south. The only real 10.5 racing we get, if you can call it that, is grudge down here. I'd love to see it expand and compete with RvW down here and maybe even see the combined class at Ducks race like Yellow Bullet was. My point is, it is about the cars, but by all means, dont think that as fans that we dont care about the tires! Cause its ALL about that small tire! Just my $.02 from the Souf..:)
 

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Not totally true. As fans we DONT want to see any DAMN steam rollers! And would LOVE to see some 10.5 racing down here in the south. The only real 10.5 racing we get, if you can call it that, is grudge down here. I'd love to see it expand and compete with RvW down here and maybe even see the combined class at Ducks race like Yellow Bullet was. My point is, it is about the cars, but by all means, dont think that as fans that we dont care about the tires! Cause its ALL about that small tire! Just my $.02 from the Souf..:)

were talking radial versus 10.5 No steam rollers!
 

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Not totally true. As fans we DONT want to see any DAMN steam rollers! And would LOVE to see some 10.5 racing down here in the south. The only real 10.5 racing we get, if you can call it that, is grudge down here. I'd love to see it expand and compete with RvW down here and maybe even see the combined class at Ducks race like Yellow Bullet was. My point is, it is about the cars, but by all means, dont think that as fans that we dont care about the tires! Cause its ALL about that small tire! Just my $.02 from the Souf..:)
I've said before.. no one knows what tire is under the car from the stands.. but they sure in the hell can see the actual car!! That to me is way more important than the actual tire!!
 
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