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Thanks for the free advise on both sides of the party.

flamingvert1989 I understand what you want just hard to get it the way you were going and not checking stuff. Hell my engine assemblier checked stuff and it was still wrong. I had to pay someone else to fix it...

Mark O'Neal when did you start giving stuff away? I missed it. Dang on it. Actually got your advise many of times. What is the reason why most people don't sell the kits already sized and ready to go? I mean because engine assembliers/builders can really fuck you over just like the next guy.

I hope you guys can work something out!!!
 

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OK, here is my 2 cents.

First, if you are going to get a resolution on something YOU THINK was wrong from the manufacturer, call yourself and be humble like you seem to be. I believe whoever you had call FOR YOU totally destroyed any chance you had for getting replacement parts whether they were right or wrong. People who get put on the defensive tend to be less helpful.

Second, it costs a lot more money than just checking if you have happen what happened to you. It is not that expensive to simply check clearences and the risk if you don't is, well..... you get the idea.

Third, trying to measure parts that were already in a catastrophic event like siezure is pointless. It's like eating an already eaten steak. Not so good

I have some Probe parts (pistons-girdle) and the quality in my opinion is very good. I am not sure if Mark is the same guy who started at the Long Beach Swap Meet in the mid 80s selling Probe stuff? But in any case I like the parts I have and see. I am pretty sure if you would have called yourself and dealt with this they would have helped you in one way or another. JMO
 

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Discussion Starter #123
i didnt call cause i did not order it it was a gift from my stepdad, as most thing go with most companies warranty (if any is available) goes to original purchaser. i do not believe he was rude but if he was i am sorry for that he spent hard earned money on it and it wasnt right. i have not checked anything since i tore it down i carried all the rods and crank to a local machine shop and they checked it for me, they said the 3 rods r sized wrong it never turned the bearing it eat the bearings up, the machine shop said 2 of the rods r oversized and 1 is undersized.

mark as far as calling i will call u or eric if need be, prob to late now. i still have the parts and have done nothing with them as of right now they r still at the machine shop cause noone around here will try to resize the rods, i can get the crank turned only. i was told before i posted that u r a stand up guy and i have posted nothing negative to dispute that, i originally asked a question and it has got blowed into a shit storm. i do not know what eric was told cause i have only heard one side of the story i am caught in the middle as u r now. if u would like i will call u and tell u any information u need to work anything out if i can. as far as dss goes i have used there parts as well and had good and bad, they made the bad good with no problems when a crankshaft broke behind the 1 & 5 rods a few years back(for u smart asses i didnt assemble it it was professionally done) they provided good service to but i talked to them cause i ordered it and i know shit does happen with parts, i have been a mechanic for most of my life as well as a parts man and anything that is man made can fuckup.
 

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Mr probe I own a trucking company and have for ten years and I give a way more i six months then you can afford in a year but its part of my business...And the crank was good and there are three bad rods thats a cheap fix . To keep a customer happy...There are alot of engine assembler that don't have the tools or now how to do it right and count on companys like your to ship them parts for putting together there own motor...Thinking you have done all the measuring ...And if he haded measured you would have haded to send the three rods so why is it such a problem now.....Because thats what he is asking for and thats why I think its bad custmer service on your companys part by not just replacing the rods......Just my 2 cents
 

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Dont forget that old junk in the oil can hang up in areas of the oil galleys and if you dont pull the galley plugs out and brush them as best as possible then the new oil pressure will jar the old stuff loose from its hiding spots and easily either scar up a bearing or hang in a galley and starve a bearing of oil.
 

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Mr probe I own a trucking company and have for ten years and I give a way more i six months then you can afford in a year but its part of my business...And the crank was good and there are three bad rods thats a cheap fix . To keep a customer happy...There are alot of engine assembler that don't have the tools or now how to do it right and count on companys like your to ship them parts for putting together there own motor...Thinking you have done all the measuring ...And if he haded measured you would have haded to send the three rods so why is it such a problem now.....Because thats what he is asking for and thats why I think its bad custmer service on your companys part by not just replacing the rods......Just my 2 cents
Man, you just don't get it.

Say Probe sends him what he wants, he can't measure anything, so if it spins a bearing again, is it still Probe's fault?

you just do not understand how absurd the thinking is that rotating assembly's are a direct drop in.

If you and the op, or anyone else does not have the proper tools and experience to fit every component to the correct tolerance, then you or anyone else, has no business trying to build motors.

plain and simple.

I have been buying tools for 30+ years now and have a decent selection. I still lack surgical instruments, so when ever I get the urge to preform a quadruple bypass, I swallow some pride and let the real Doctors handle the job.

and that my friend...is good business.;)
 

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Discussion Starter #127
i removed all the oil galley plugs and had the block dipped and cleand at the local machine shop, then took a set of block cleaning brushes i owned and went through every hole in it. if and when i get another set of rods i will take them to the local shop and have them check them now for damn sure , not gonna take it for granted that they r on size from here on out!!!!!!!!!!!
 

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i didnt call cause i did not order it it was a gift from my stepdad, as most thing go with most companies warranty (if any is available) goes to original purchaser. i do not believe he was rude but if he was i am sorry for that he spent hard earned money on it and it wasnt right. i have not checked anything since i tore it down i carried all the rods and crank to a local machine shop and they checked it for me, they said the 3 rods r sized wrong it never turned the bearing it eat the bearings up, the machine shop said 2 of the rods r oversized and 1 is undersized.

mark as far as calling i will call u or eric if need be, prob to late now. i still have the parts and have done nothing with them as of right now they r still at the machine shop cause noone around here will try to resize the rods, i can get the crank turned only. i was told before i posted that u r a stand up guy and i have posted nothing negative to dispute that, i originally asked a question and it has got blowed into a shit storm. i do not know what eric was told cause i have only heard one side of the story i am caught in the middle as u r now. if u would like i will call u and tell u any information u need to work anything out if i can. as far as dss goes i have used there parts as well and had good and bad, they made the bad good with no problems when a crankshaft broke behind the 1 & 5 rods a few years back(for u smart asses i didnt assemble it it was professionally done) they provided good service to but i talked to them cause i ordered it and i know shit does happen with parts, i have been a mechanic for most of my life as well as a parts man and anything that is man made can fuckup.
Here is where I have a problem with the machine shop that is telling you that there are 3 bad rods. I'm starting to question your machine shop. If you have 2 that are oversized, chances are, they would not have "ate up the bearings". The undersized one, possibly. But, the oversized ones would most likely have spun the bearings, if they were going to do anything. In your OP, you said it started knocking, but you said it didn't spin a bearing. Strange.

Oh, and where do you live that you can get a crank ground, but cant get rods resized? We have maybe 3 choices for crank grinding in KC, and about 20 that can resizee rods. Weird.

You seem like a nice guy, really you do. But as others have said, I bet your stepdad or whoever it was (I don't feel like reading it again) probably came off wrong to Eric or Manny. Just my opinion.
After dealing with Eric for the last couple years, I get the impression he's got the same attitude I do, if you're cool to me and honest, he will help you out, but if you start getting a little sideways, your done. I'm the exact same way. Manny on the other hand I've only dealt with once, so I can't say.
 

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Ok, I DON'T vote Liberal!!

I did misread the thread in a spot and, I see now what it read, I thought he was saying the rod JOURNALS on the crank were wrong, I see that he says the rods are incorrect, were they not sized properly?

I do run my own business, and I'm not trying to TELL you what to do, just stating an opinion on my perspective, if the crank was wrong then I believe even if he assembled it to find out it was wrong, you were BOTH in error, or if the rods were sized wrong and he assembled it, then you were BOTH in error! It's not a fact, it's my opinion!!

I NEVER called you a thief, I merely stated that if the parts were machined wrong causing a problem, that was in fact exacerbated by the person who "ASSEMBLED" the parts, then in my opinion you were BOTH at fault!

If I had "assembled" the engine without checking it, I probably wouldn't have said a word to anyone and just ate it, but I would have been pissed if I tore it down and found the rods weren't sized right, but then again I wouldn't "build" an engine without checking it!

If the parts were made CORRECT for the application and it's JUST a matter of incorrect installation, then I apologize, it's ALL on him!
I don't seem to understand this ......... It wasn't an assembled short/long block it was a kit. If the "Installer" (said loosely) had done "his job" and checked clearances BEFORE FIRING there would be NO ISSUE ....... yet some on here think that there should be a "Warranty" on improperly installed parts ....... I say "IMPROPERLY" because again if the installer would have done the job properly there would be NO ISSUE with Probe and the "correct" parts replaced BEFORE ANY DAMAGE OCCURED BY FIRING THE ENGINE ........ Just like what an earlier poster wrote the difference between a "PARTS INSTALLER" and an "ENGINE BUILDER" come out in this thread VERY CLEARLY .......... Just my 2 cents and also how it would be in a Court of LAW
 

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Ok, I DON'T vote Liberal!!

I did misread the thread in a spot and, I see now what it read, I thought he was saying the rod JOURNALS on the crank were wrong, I see that he says the rods are incorrect, were they not sized properly?

I do run my own business, and I'm not trying to TELL you what to do, just stating an opinion on my perspective, if the crank was wrong then I believe even if he assembled it to find out it was wrong, you were BOTH in error, or if the rods were sized wrong and he assembled it, then you were BOTH in error! It's not a fact, it's my opinion!!

I NEVER called you a thief, I merely stated that if the parts were machined wrong causing a problem, that was in fact exacerbated by the person who "ASSEMBLED" the parts, then in my opinion you were BOTH at fault!

If I had "assembled" the engine without checking it, I probably wouldn't have said a word to anyone and just ate it, but I would have been pissed if I tore it down and found the rods weren't sized right, but then again I wouldn't "build" an engine without checking it!

If the parts were made CORRECT for the application and it's JUST a matter of incorrect installation, then I apologize, it's ALL on him!
If he eats the motor ...how can you tell if the rods were sized wrong.


And...in my experience with offshore rods...we check every one of them and resize as required......same as we do for American made rods.
 

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What is the reason why most people don't sell the kits already sized and ready to go?


I don't make enough money on a kit to have several people measure and size everything...and if I added enough yo cover it, the customers would go buy them from someone else.

And....other than to OP.....you guys would STILL check it when you got it.


I mean because engine assembliers/builders can really fuck you over just like the next guy.
That's true. But when you pay someone to do it for you you have recourse.
 

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This is a good time to share with you my opinion about "machine shops". First of all, an automotive machine shop is not an engine builder in many cases. While it's true that many engine builders also machine parts, it's not neccessarily true that a machine shop builds engines (althought they all think they can). If the engine builder knows what he's doing, he can instruct the machine shop what he needs done. If a customer that is inexperienced takes his stuff to a machine shop, he may get more "machining" than he barganed for. Let's face it, machine shops have all these machines in there, and they can make more money if they use every one of them on your block, etc., whether the parts need machining or not. I have seen alot of total street engines get line bored up the ass, machining that in 90% of the cases may not even be required given how the customer is going to use his engine. I have also rarely seen a machine shop take any kind of responsibility for fucking up an inexperienced customer's stuff, they ALWAYS blame the parts supplier. It is always "the part is fucked up, BUT we can fix it" (by using some more of our machines, of course).

My rule of thumb, get as few things "machined" as you possibly can. Take your parts to an honest to God engine builder and let him take care of whatever needs to be done.
 

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MARK FROM PROBE I do get it .And you see it your way and thats why I would not buy anything from your company.....IF he haded check it you would have haded to send him three rods ...And I have my motors built. But I have built motors in the past and I used plastic gauage .And a good mic....But I have bought kits for eagle that the rods were wrong but i found out when i assembled those motors......But when eagle haded a bad part they replaced it no problem.......Thats all I have to say about this so have a good an good luck on future biss...........thank you
 

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i didnt call cause i did not order it it was a gift from my stepdad, as most thing go with most companies warranty (if any is available) goes to original purchaser. i do not believe he was rude but if he was i am sorry for that he spent hard earned money on it and it wasnt right. i have not checked anything since i tore it down i carried all the rods and crank to a local machine shop and they checked it for me, they said the 3 rods r sized wrong it never turned the bearing it eat the bearings up, the machine shop said 2 of the rods r oversized and 1 is undersized.

mark as far as calling i will call u or eric if need be, prob to late now. i still have the parts and have done nothing with them as of right now they r still at the machine shop cause noone around here will try to resize the rods, i can get the crank turned only. i was told before i posted that u r a stand up guy and i have posted nothing negative to dispute that, i originally asked a question and it has got blowed into a shit storm. i do not know what eric was told cause i have only heard one side of the story i am caught in the middle as u r now. if u would like i will call u and tell u any information u need to work anything out if i can. as far as dss goes i have used there parts as well and had good and bad, they made the bad good with no problems when a crankshaft broke behind the 1 & 5 rods a few years back(for u smart asses i didnt assemble it it was professionally done) they provided good service to but i talked to them cause i ordered it and i know shit does happen with parts, i have been a mechanic for most of my life as well as a parts man and anything that is man made can fuckup.

The bottom line on this stuff is this. YOU are responsible for checking the rods. YOU are responsible for "building" the engine. That is you measure everything and you alter the measurements to get a desired result.

So you check pin fit...if it's not within spec (FOR YOUR APPLICATION)...you pin fit the rods (and pistons).

And you check the bearing clearances...if it's not within spec (FOR YOUR APPLICATION)...you mix bearing shells, polish the crank...whatever it takes to establish the bearing clearances for the rods and mains.

And you check the rod side clearance...if it's not within spec (FOR YOUR APPLICATION)...you machine the rods to get it within spec.

And you check the thrust clearance...if it's not within spec (FOR YOUR APPLICATION)...you do whatever you have to to get it there.

You also have to check to make sure the bearing doesn't interfere with the radius in the ends of the rod journals...or the rods with the camshaft or the cylinder skirts, or the bottom of the block.

If the rods just need to be sized to your engine you are responsible for that...if the rods are defective..I am responsible for that.

At no time am I, Ohio crank, DSS, FPS...or any other company responsible for your ignorance. My company, and I presume all others I mentioned, will normally take the time to answer your questions to the best of our ability, but we are not in a position to know what you do, or do not, know.

If you think those rods are defective, not just need to be sized, but defective, then send them in and I'll have Shawn look at them.
 

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Here is where I have a problem with the machine shop that is telling you that there are 3 bad rods. I'm starting to question your machine shop. If you have 2 that are oversized, chances are, they would not have "ate up the bearings". The undersized one, possibly. But, the oversized ones would most likely have spun the bearings, if they were going to do anything. In your OP, you said it started knocking, but you said it didn't spin a bearing. Strange.

Oh, and where do you live that you can get a crank ground, but cant get rods resized? We have maybe 3 choices for crank grinding in KC, and about 20 that can resizee rods. Weird.

You seem like a nice guy, really you do. But as others have said, I bet your stepdad or whoever it was (I don't feel like reading it again) probably came off wrong to Eric or Manny. Just my opinion.
After dealing with Eric for the last couple years, I get the impression he's got the same attitude I do, if you're cool to me and honest, he will help you out, but if you start getting a little sideways, your done. I'm the exact same way. Manny on the other hand I've only dealt with once, so I can't say.
Someone once told me that arguing with Manny is like punching a pillow.
 

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MARK FROM PROBE I do get it .And you see it your way and thats why I would not buy anything from your company.....IF he haded check it you would have haded to send him three rods ...And I have my motors built. But I have built motors in the past and I used plastic gauage .And a good mic....But I have bought kits for eagle that the rods were wrong but i found out when i assembled those motors......But when eagle haded a bad part they replaced it no problem.......Thats all I have to say about this so have a good an good luck on future biss...........thank you

Me too.

But he didn't do that...did he?
 

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Had nothing but great service and customer support from Probe. I am not an engine builder. I am an engine assembler. I CHECK EVERYTHINHG....TWICE.

PS: George is kind of a phuckstick. :finga:
 

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MARK FROM PROBE I do get it .And you see it your way and thats why I would not buy anything from your company.....IF he haded check it you would have haded to send him three rods ...And I have my motors built. But I have built motors in the past and I used plastic gauage .And a good mic....But I have bought kits for eagle that the rods were wrong but i found out when i assembled those motors......But when eagle haded a bad part they replaced it no problem.......Thats all I have to say about this so have a good an good luck on future biss...........thank you

One more thing for you.

But those Eagle parts they replaced.....if you had not checked them and just ran them until they broke.........you think they still would have replaced them for you?


thats why I would not buy anything from your company..

and that's probably for the best...:)
 
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