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Ok, MR Nick, since the engine programs for many of the teams is largely baseed upon gaining every bit of horsepower, do you think you might try
A slightly different approach and tilt the scale and try to make more torque since the rpm rule will be I. Effect?
Or would you concentrate on narrowing up the power band even tighter and using gears & clutch to "park" the engine closer to that mandated peak RPM range.
 

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Or would you concentrate on narrowing up the power band even tighter and using gears & clutch to "park" the engine closer to that mandated peak RPM range.
That's exactly what they do now. With the new rules they will just do it at a lower RPM. Pro Stock teams change trans raitos almost every run to keep the engine in the EXACT RPM range they want.

If you want to see something incredible go to libertygears.com and look at the ultimate Z ratio chart. Its incredible how many ratios they make... Here is a link to it. http://www.libertysgears.com/ratio_charts_updated_february_2011/ratio_chart_ultimate_z_july_2014.pdf
 

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That's exactly what they do now. With the new rules they will just do it at a lower RPM. Pro Stock teams change trans raitos almost every run to keep the engine in the EXACT RPM range they want.

If you want to see something incredible go to libertygears.com and look at the ultimate Z ratio chart. Its incredible how many ratios they make... Here is a link to it. http://www.libertysgears.com/ratio_charts_updated_february_2011/ratio_chart_ultimate_z_july_2014.pdf
Trans and clutch man is more valuable than engine tuneup man in prostock imho.
 

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Thanks Nick and Chris!

I am a huge fan of Pro Stock (both ANDRA and NHRA) and run a 400ci Australian Pro Stock engine in my GXP with an Auto behind it in ANDRA Super Stock.

I have followed the other thread since the first page and will do the same on this one as well! I am reading with interest how you go with EFI. There have been no discussions that i am aware of out here about converting our 400ci engines to EFI even though it is an option in my class! It will be interesting when the old NHRA cars come down under to race what mods they will need to go back to carburettors down under!

Cheers and thanks for everyone's input!
 

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Trans and clutch man is more valuable than engine tuneup man in prostock imho.
I don’t think he is any more important then the Tune Up Guy, But I will agree he plays a vital role and probably does not get enough credit, I am sure EE depends on him too be consistant so she can do her job which as we all know she is doing real well right now. That whole team is in another zone right now...
Mark

.
 

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What will the shift point be to keep from hitting RPM limiter , 10.500 , avoiding stutter, over reving and major engine damage??

10.2- 10.3-10.4 :)
 

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Discussion Starter #107
In case you guys and gals haven't heard yet......


Elite partners with Patterson Racing to expand into Sportsman racing

WYNNEWOOD, Okla. (Oct. 24) -- As Elite continues to expand its presence in professional drag racing, its support of competition at the Sportsman level remains an important part of its core business.

To augment its participation in the amateur ranks, Elite will merge with Patterson Racing Inc. to form Patterson-Elite Performance. The new company will continue to operate out of Patterson's shop in Augusta, Kan., and supply high-powered, reliable performance to Sportsman racers across the country.

"This is an extension of our growing business," Elite owner Richard Freeman said. "Patterson Racing has been a staple in the world of Sportsman racing, and we had been looking for a way to expand into every class of drag racing. This is a perfect opportunity for us."

Patterson Racing, co-owned by the father-son team of Allan and Todd Patterson, has been building engines for 36 years since Allan formed the company in 1979. Allan Patterson has been friends with Royce Freeman, Richard's father, for many years.

"My dad is 70 years old, and him and my mom, Barbara, have been involved in our business since the start," Todd Patterson said. "They're to the point where they want to back off a little bit. With this merger, it makes both of us stronger. We hope to continue to be at the top of the food chain when it comes to building Sportsman engines."

Patterson Racing has built engines that have powered more than 100 NHRA national event winners in the Sportsman classes and supplied top-quality engine parts and machining services to customers across the U.S. and worldwide. The flagship for Patterson has been Sportsman legend David Rampy, one of the most prolific drivers in NHRA history. All of Rampy's Competition Eliminator victories have been powered by Patterson engines.

"Our motors have been synonymous with record-setting performances and reliability over the years," Patterson said. "This is not an end -- it's an extension, it's new life for us. This will hopefully make our program stronger. For our Sportsman racers, they're going to gain access to a ton of Pro Stock technology through this merger."

The two companies are about three hours apart in the Midwest. As Elite expands its Pro Stock team, its Sportsman engine-building capability will be channeled through the Pattersons' shop in Kansas.

"We've been looking to expand to Pro Mod and all the Sportsman categories, and we had to make a decision as to how to do that," Freeman said. "This will be a full team effort by a lot of people, including everyone at Elite, to make it something really special. We have a great love for the Sportsman classes, and we can't accomplish it all alone."

Nick Ferri, a past Patterson Racing employee, and Jake Hairston head the Elite engine department, and the team has a plethora of talent throughout the organization, including recently hired crew chief Brian "Lump" Self. Elite won the 2014 NHRA Pro Stock championship with driver Erica Enders and has won 10 races in 2015, eight by current points leader Enders and one by rookie Drew Skillman, the leading candidate for NHRA rookie of the year. It also powered Rodger Brogdon to one victory this season

Allan Patterson will still be involved in the joint venture as a consultant. Patterson's current engine staff of Brian Lewis, Cory Mattson, Eric Finlay, Eldon Clark, and Darren Pocock in sales have over 100 years combined experience to continue to serve customers.

Patterson Elite Performance will also continue to field a car in NHRA Competition Eliminator, Super Stock, and Stock with the Omaha Track COPO Camaro next season.


I really hope a lot of you that are looking for a machine shop to do work at any level, that you would consider us. From anything to parts to all out race engines and anything in between. I will still be doing all our designs and engineering on our Pro Stock engines but have a very capable staff that exicute all the work. Same goes for Patterson/Elite, I will also be heavily involved in that program just like I am now with the current one. I'm looking forward to this adventure!

Nick
 

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In case you guys and gals haven't heard yet......


Elite partners with Patterson Racing to expand into Sportsman racing

WYNNEWOOD, Okla. (Oct. 24) -- As Elite continues to expand its presence in professional drag racing, its support of competition at the Sportsman level remains an important part of its core business.

To augment its participation in the amateur ranks, Elite will merge with Patterson Racing Inc. to form Patterson-Elite Performance. The new company will continue to operate out of Patterson's shop in Augusta, Kan., and supply high-powered, reliable performance to Sportsman racers across the country.

"This is an extension of our growing business," Elite owner Richard Freeman said. "Patterson Racing has been a staple in the world of Sportsman racing, and we had been looking for a way to expand into every class of drag racing. This is a perfect opportunity for us."

Patterson Racing, co-owned by the father-son team of Allan and Todd Patterson, has been building engines for 36 years since Allan formed the company in 1979. Allan Patterson has been friends with Royce Freeman, Richard's father, for many years.

"My dad is 70 years old, and him and my mom, Barbara, have been involved in our business since the start," Todd Patterson said. "They're to the point where they want to back off a little bit. With this merger, it makes both of us stronger. We hope to continue to be at the top of the food chain when it comes to building Sportsman engines."

Patterson Racing has built engines that have powered more than 100 NHRA national event winners in the Sportsman classes and supplied top-quality engine parts and machining services to customers across the U.S. and worldwide. The flagship for Patterson has been Sportsman legend David Rampy, one of the most prolific drivers in NHRA history. All of Rampy's Competition Eliminator victories have been powered by Patterson engines.

"Our motors have been synonymous with record-setting performances and reliability over the years," Patterson said. "This is not an end -- it's an extension, it's new life for us. This will hopefully make our program stronger. For our Sportsman racers, they're going to gain access to a ton of Pro Stock technology through this merger."

The two companies are about three hours apart in the Midwest. As Elite expands its Pro Stock team, its Sportsman engine-building capability will be channeled through the Pattersons' shop in Kansas.

"We've been looking to expand to Pro Mod and all the Sportsman categories, and we had to make a decision as to how to do that," Freeman said. "This will be a full team effort by a lot of people, including everyone at Elite, to make it something really special. We have a great love for the Sportsman classes, and we can't accomplish it all alone."

Nick Ferri, a past Patterson Racing employee, and Jake Hairston head the Elite engine department, and the team has a plethora of talent throughout the organization, including recently hired crew chief Brian "Lump" Self. Elite won the 2014 NHRA Pro Stock championship with driver Erica Enders and has won 10 races in 2015, eight by current points leader Enders and one by rookie Drew Skillman, the leading candidate for NHRA rookie of the year. It also powered Rodger Brogdon to one victory this season

Allan Patterson will still be involved in the joint venture as a consultant. Patterson's current engine staff of Brian Lewis, Cory Mattson, Eric Finlay, Eldon Clark, and Darren Pocock in sales have over 100 years combined experience to continue to serve customers.

Patterson Elite Performance will also continue to field a car in NHRA Competition Eliminator, Super Stock, and Stock with the Omaha Track COPO Camaro next season.


I really hope a lot of you that are looking for a machine shop to do work at any level, that you would consider us. From anything to parts to all out race engines and anything in between. I will still be doing all our designs and engineering on our Pro Stock engines but have a very capable staff that exicute all the work. Same goes for Patterson/Elite, I will also be heavily involved in that program just like I am now with the current one. I'm looking forward to this adventure!

Nick
cool!!! I bet allot of good will come from this new venture.congrats
 

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How will NHRA police the rpm limit ? when they went to 8800 rule in ARCA we were given ign boxes set at that rpm will they do something similar?
Is harmonics an issue for you at the reduced rpm?
 

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Thanks Nick and Chris!

I am a huge fan of Pro Stock (both ANDRA and NHRA) and run a 400ci Australian Pro Stock engine in my GXP with an Auto behind it in ANDRA Super Stock.

I have followed the other thread since the first page and will do the same on this one as well! I am reading with interest how you go with EFI. There have been no discussions that i am aware of out here about converting our 400ci engines to EFI even though it is an option in my class! It will be interesting when the old NHRA cars come down under to race what mods they will need to go back to carburettors down under!

Cheers and thanks for everyone's input!
Darren
I think we will never see EFI on our 400cid Prostock cars here downunder, they are struggling at the moment to get a 16 car field the way our dollar is against the US dollar. Just wont happen here or in our lifetime ;)
 

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Nick, I've seen two approaches used to determine the coil bind height.

Traditionally engine builders have been taking the spring to full solid, when the coils are fully compressed, and calling that the coil bind height, which I'll call the hard bind point.

Recently though I've seen more engine builders determining the "soft bind" height and using it to set their clearances.

This is the height where the coils are just starting to stack up.

Depending on the spring design this soft bind point can be as much as 0.050" above the hard bind point.

The advantage of using the soft bind point to set your clearance is it insures you are never running the spring in a range where some of the coils are partially stacked, thus reducing the stress on the spring.

On the flip side if you use the hard bind point and run a tight clearance you can unknowingly end up with the spring in a operating range where some of the coils are stacking at full lift, putting extra stress both on the spring and the valve train.

Is this issue something you also give consideration to in your spring setups?
This is something I've always wondered about too. Even with a pretty basic Rimac spring tester and a dial indicator you see the difference in what I would call coil bind and solid height. I've always worked to the coil bind or soft bind number,but have always wondered if the solid or hard bind height would better control things in an engine with "heavy" valvetrain.
 

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In order to get enough fuel into and cool the port and valves, we inject ours at 680 degrees of rotation.
Of course that is over 10,000 :)
George,
That is about 95% duty cycle. What size injectors / pressure are you running? I would guess around 85 lbs/hr @ 3 bars.

Stan
 

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How will NHRA police the rpm limit ? when they went to 8800 rule in ARCA we were given ign boxes set at that rpm will they do something similar?
Is harmonics an issue for you at the reduced rpm?
the rev limiter is built into the holley EFI unit and is not user definable
 

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George,
That is about 95% duty cycle. What size injectors / pressure are you running? I would guess around 85 lbs/hr @ 3 bars.

Stan
Yes that is correct...we do run our injectors on max most of the time...
Unlike the new 500 rules, we can go up and down with our rail PSI
 

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Yes that is correct...we do run our injectors on max most of the time...
Unlike the new 500 rules, we can go up and down with our rail PSI
George,
That sounds like you are running it almost like a mechanical injection system and using fuel pressure for tuning.

Stan
 

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Yes that is correct...we do run our injectors on max most of the time...
Unlike the new 500 rules, we can go up and down with our rail PSI
PS can go up and down with their fuel pressure. They are limited to 90 psi max. I bet they will be well below that with the oversized injectors they are required to run.

We tune ours with fuel pressure after we feel we have the stagger and fuel map like we want it. Pretty simple at that point.
 

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Can the processors be manipulated to have different duty cycles for each cylinder?

Can the timing of the cycle be different for each cylinder?
 
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