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Look here's the deal.

It's not a problem for Christians. Pat, is not some god... he will make mistakes, just like other Christians and non Christians alike.

I appreciate the stereotype label that Christians are somehow impervious to mistake and sin, but you are wrong. And Christians who believe that are wrong too.

Not an easy pill to swallow seeing Pat do such a thing. But, a problem? Hey Pat will be dead and buried, and there will be plenty more people who call themselves Christians, who will make plenty of more mistakes, just as there was before, and just as many as non-Christians.
a mistake is loosing your temper and taking it out on yer wife... or speeding etc. the guy isn't making mistakes when he intentionally lies about his military service, or takes advantage of the willing to buy a 500,000 race horse...
 

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I bet their power bill would feed a 3rd world country for a couple of months...Ever been inside? the frickin bathroom faucets are plated with real gold...Tax exempt, whatta crock!
ALTHOUGH, I agree with you on this.

If you are going to be a pillar of example for Christians, and how they handle their money? Maybe you ought to give the percentage of your income, that they do to 3rd world nations?

How about you, instead of doing what you consistantly do here, which is make illiterate statements, do some investigation as to just what folks like Pat Robertson have done with their money???

You would be surprised at the millions that have been given to empoverished nations, and groups around the world....

If you want to take Christians to task about their money? Get your wallet out and let it do the talking.

Matter of fact, since you are on a high horse? How about you pony up, and adopt a child through World Vision. It's the least you can do since you are such an authority.

And before you slam that organization too? You better do your homework, like you should on evolution.
 

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I think you guys have it confused. Pat Robinson is the host of the 700 club and does his show from their studio's in Virgina.

From their website.

The 700 Club is a live television program that airs weekdays before a studio audience from The Christian Broadcasting Network's (CBN) broadcast facilities in Virginia Beach, Virginia.

Now if you're talking about the folks who own and operate TBN out of California I only have thing to say.. "run Forest RUN!!!"

I've never agreed with the Croutches. Does the 700 club run on their network... I think so.

See you've heaped many disparaging words on a man and didn't even have your facts right... shame on you and George you disappoint me... not that you care. I figured you'd get your facts right.
 

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a mistake is loosing your temper and taking it out on yer wife... or speeding etc. the guy isn't making mistakes when he intentionally lies about his military service, or takes advantage of the willing to buy a 500,000 race horse...
Really? So I finally get to meet god? You have single handed, come up with the level of wrong doing, that they are allow to call mistake.

I would say that if you gave that some thought, you could look back at any wrong thing you have done, and call it a mistake.... if you can't then you haven't yet grown from that wrong doing.
 

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ALTHOUGH, I agree with you on this.

If you are going to be a pillar of example for Christians, and how they handle their money? Maybe you ought to give the percentage of your income, that they do to 3rd world nations?

How about you, instead of doing what you consistantly do here, which is make illiterate statements, do some investigation as to just what folks like Pat Robertson have done with their money???

You would be surprised at the millions that have been given to empoverished nations, and groups around the world....

If you want to take Christians to task about their money? Get your wallet out and let it do the talking.

Matter of fact, since you are on a high horse? How about you pony up, and adopt a child through World Vision. It's the least you can do since you are such an authority.

And before you slam that organization too? You better do your homework, like you should on evolution.
Did I miss something here? Am I suddenly in the charity business...because I never made any claims to be in the business of saving the world..or putting getting rich from doing so, first.


What I'd be happy with is if these lying pukes had to make a disclaimer like: Hi, outta every one of hard earned dollars you send me, I'll spend 90 cents on myself and if anythings left over after my worker squabble over the remaining 10 cents...I'll send it to the charity of my choice. Of course that may be the politician thats promised to do the most for me. You know, little things like making sure I don't have to give up any part of the dollar you send to the government.
 

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I think you guys have it confused. Pat Robinson is the host of the 700 club and does his show from their studio's in Virgina.

From their website.

The 700 Club is a live television program that airs weekdays before a studio audience from The Christian Broadcasting Network's (CBN) broadcast facilities in Virginia Beach, Virginia.

Now if you're talking about the folks who own and operate TBN out of California I only have thing to say.. "run Forest RUN!!!"

I've never agreed with the Croutches. Does the 700 club run on their network... I think so.

See you've heaped many disparaging words on a man and didn't even have your facts right... shame on you and George you disappoint me... not that you care. I figured you'd get your facts right.
The 700 club you say. Wasn't that pilfer...I mean piller of giving to himself, first Jim Baker one of the founders of the 700 club..

Maybe you should do a bit or research yourself...here's place to start http://en.allexperts.com/q/Churches-Christ-2323/700-club.htm

Here's just one quote one Robertsons exploits in case your religion prohibits you from visiting such sites.

"Robertson used the "700 Club" to make pleas for donations to help those in Zaire, and then used his non-profit organization, and the money, to haul diamond mining equipment over there to help the dictator."

Sounds like a true act of charity and one I'm sure most Americans would consider worthy of a tax break.

Here's another gem..."(About Planned Parenthood): "It teaches kids to fornicate, teaching people to have adultery, every kind of bestiality, homosexuality, lesbianism - everything the Bible condemns."...If Planned Parenthood teaches our kids bestiality, just what are they doing at Planned Parenthood. I'm not really up on it but I remember reading somewhere that that's one thing that won't cause pregnancy.



Yes Robertsons does supply programming to TBN stations, just like TBN supplies programming to CBN stations. and yes the 700 club shows up on TBN at my house


Mark, If your seriously interested in doing your flock at JAMA a favor, find out what Robertson is all about before you find yourself leading them down the wrong path.
Because saying the 700 club is good while TBN is bad...Is truly the pot calling the kettle black.

Bottom line, It takes responsibility to lead people. If you want to be one accepting the responsibility of those telling the rest of us, you know the way....Then I suggest you have to check the path before leading others down it.
 

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Facts? What the hell are you talking about, Mark? Since when do I let facts get in the way of my hatred, bigotry and discontent?

Anyway, I can't stand any of those "send in your dollar bills" religious networks so from my perspective (admittedly, very narrow), I lump them all in together.

Fucked up your evening, didn't I?
 

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ALTHOUGH, I agree with you on this.


Matter of fact, since you are on a high horse? How about you pony up, and adopt a child through World Vision. It's the least you can do since you are such an authority.

And before you slam that organization too? You better do your homework, like you should on evolution.
Chris I just reread this and noticed this line...Your right, lets address this horse.

I practice birth control, and believe responsible people should also.

Unlike religion that goes into these third world countries preaching birth control is a sin. A sin that they'll rot in hell for. In my opinion, religion is partially responsible for all those kids that you can adopt through World Vision....

I have done my part. Let me suggest that you and your church also do the responsible thing by running down and adopting a bus load of those kids your partially responsible for.

Bottom line, stop trying to make a problem fostered by religion, the worlds problem
 

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George, you can't mess up my evening... not possible. Think about it, what could you possibly say or do to me to tick me off or have enough influence on my poultry little life to make me care what you think. I do respect you for the most part.

For all of the others... We do not agree with the send in a dollar ministries. In the 7 years JAMA has been ministering to racers across this country and in Canada, we have never had a fund raiser, never passed the plate, never sold any item and never gone begging for money or donations. We don't believe in the give to get mentality of some Christian organizations. Christ never did that, out ministry is modeled after His and what the bible teaches.

Please do not presume to know what I believe or teach unless you have been to one of our chapel services or have had in-depth conversations with me. I don't know you, so I doubt you fit into any of the above categories.

Now as far as Pat Robertson... I personally don't care what he says or does, I don't follow him, I follow Jesus. Often listening to televangelists or preaching for that matter on TV you have to eat the meat and throw away the bones. The bible is my guide for what is right and wrong. If I hear someone teach something that grieves my spirit, I check it out for my self.

Back on PR, if you have facts to support your side, then provide them. It's easy to say someone is this or that without proof. I went to the one link. That's not research, it's just another man's opinion. Facts are hard and cold documented proof of allegations. Bank accounts, tax returns, charges filed, lawsuits, etc.

As far as Jim Baker goes, the boy went to jail for being stupid... he fully admits it. When did PR get involved in the 700 Club, no clue. I think you guys have missed the point. This is not about one person, this is about how some folks put all Christians into one category, money hungry thieves. That is bigotry at it's best...
 

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George, you can't mess up my evening... not possible. Think about it, what could you possibly say or do to me to tick me off or have enough influence on my poultry little life to make me care what you think. I do respect you for the most part.

For all of the others... We do not agree with the send in a dollar ministries. In the 7 years JAMA has been ministering to racers across this country and in Canada, we have never had a fund raiser, never passed the plate, never sold any item and never gone begging for money or donations. We don't believe in the give to get mentality of some Christian organizations. Christ never did that, out ministry is modeled after His and what the bible teaches.

Please do not presume to know what I believe or teach unless you have been to one of our chapel services or have had in-depth conversations with me. I don't know you, so I doubt you fit into any of the above categories.

Now as far as Pat Robertson... I personally don't care what he says or does, I don't follow him, I follow Jesus. Often listening to televangelists or preaching for that matter on TV you have to eat the meat and throw away the bones. The bible is my guide for what is right and wrong. If I hear someone teach something that grieves my spirit, I check it out for my self.

Back on PR, if you have facts to support your side, then provide them. It's easy to say someone is this or that without proof. I went to the one link. That's not research, it's just another man's opinion. Facts are hard and cold documented proof of allegations. Bank accounts, tax returns, charges filed, lawsuits, etc.

As far as Jim Baker goes, the boy went to jail for being stupid... he fully admits it. When did PR get involved in the 700 Club, no clue. I think you guys have missed the point. This is not about one person, this is about how some folks put all Christians into one category, money hungry thieves. That is bigotry at it's best...
woah tex, nobodies calling your ministry into question here... from what i've read throughout this thread the primary focus is televangelists who want the allmighty dollar instead of the the allmighty. i respect the fact you eliminated the plate considerably.

if proof is what you need it can be gotten... but if its empirical, unbiased, peer reviewed and published will you still believe it? because i think you don't want to no matter how much proof someone throws at you.
 

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I haven't missed the point at all... all I'm saying is it's all hearsay or another's opinion unless it's supported by facts. Facts are facts... I don't believe I said I agreed with PR, just if you're going to talk ugly about the man, support it with definitive evidence and not your own opinion.

That doesn't mean you can't have an opinion by any stretch of the imagination... it means if your are going to accuse the person of something back it up. simple...

Now on him supporting Giuliani... (sp) it falls into the whatever category for me. Who I vote for will have little to do with others opinion. Jesus didn't get involved with the geo political scheme of the Roman empire during his life on earth. The only establishment He fought was the church... go figure. Render unto Caesar that which is Caesars. He took on the Pharisees and religious establishment because they had turn worshiping God into... wait... wait... big business.

Have many in the Christian community done the same... yep... sure have. All I can tell you is this, I don't want to be in the same dimension when God brings His wrath on them... and He will.
 

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Mark,

Hearsay is what these guys are about. Evolution, is hearsay too. They have total faith in the word of Man. It's another religion, and possibly, a serious religion. They are going to supress all other religious beliefs at some point in time, do to their belief that the religion of Evolution, is king of all else.

They are going to limit free speech.

They are going to limit what you can read.

They are going to systematically run your life based on their religion, of evolution, and worship of the planet, or in a sense, worship of the creation, instead of worship of the creator.

The day is coming........

They think they are progressive thinkers, but their lack of knowledge, stops them from understanding and seeing that this is all old, all been done before.... nothing knew under the Son.
 

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This is what I love about the always correct christians

George, you can't mess up my evening... not possible. Think about it, what could you possibly say or do to me to tick me off or have enough influence on my poultry little life to make me care what you think. I do respect you for the most part.

For all of the others... We do not agree with the send in a dollar ministries. In the 7 years JAMA has been ministering to racers across this country and in Canada, we have never had a fund raiser, never passed the plate, never sold any item and never gone begging for money or donations. We don't believe in the give to get mentality of some Christian organizations. Christ never did that, out ministry is modeled after His and what the bible teaches.
Kudos for not passing the plate, but do you support robertson or not? Because it seems to me that your for him, until your against him. I don't believe you can have it both way in this situation.

Please do not presume to know what I believe or teach unless you have been to one of our chapel services or have had in-depth conversations with me. I don't know you, so I doubt you fit into any of the above categories.
No you don't and No I haven't...but it was you that came out in support of robertson, so I took your word at face value and assumed your a supporter.
Now as far as Pat Robertson... I personally don't care what he says or does, I don't follow him, I follow Jesus. Often listening to televangelists or preaching for that matter on TV you have to eat the meat and throw away the bones. The bible is my guide for what is right and wrong. If I hear someone teach something that grieves my spirit, I check it out for my self.
Again, which one is it? Are you for him or not? It's fine to believe in something but it's not very christian of you to come out in support of someone in one post then turn on them, two posts later.

Back on PR, if you have facts to support your side, then provide them. It's easy to say someone is this or that without proof. I went to the one link. That's not research, it's just another man's opinion. Facts are hard and cold documented proof of allegations. Bank accounts, tax returns, charges filed, lawsuits, etc.
The man making that statement was a fellow minister, does he speak the word or not? Does it depend on the time of day? BTW there's even a movie on robertson life that details "Involved in a scandal in which he used donations from Operation Blessing to fund his diamond mine in Zaire. Each of the pilots of Operation Blessing have attested to this." The diamond thing. I have to think they had their facts straight to stay away from lawsuits. Anyway one thing I do believe in is "where theres smoke, theres fire." All I had to do to find out what I did was to google "pat robertson scandel...here's what came back Results 1 - 10 of about 684,000 for pat robertson scandel. (0.11 seconds) 684,000 pages in google involving roberson and scandel, that rates as smoke in my book. I know my answer, and I'm not the one voicing approval or disapproval without first knowing a little something. That would be you, and again I suggest that if your going to lead people down the path, first make sure your on it, but don't pull the christian thing and expect me to do your research for you, cause I'm not the guy leading people anywhere.

As far as Jim Baker goes, the boy went to jail for being stupid... he fully admits it. When did PR get involved in the 700 Club, no clue. I think you guys have missed the point. This is not about one person, this is about how some folks put all Christians into one category, money hungry thieves. That is bigotry at it's best...

No point missed here. It is about all christians, and until christians can get their house in order it's not bigotry, it's about profiling and profiling is just good business.
The fact that you don't pass the plate gains you creditability, but I hope you don't fall into the trap of assumming that because some call themselves christians, they read the bible the same way you do.
 

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Mark, not that any of this matters, when I was going to the FFW events, I always went to the RFC services on Sunday. Check with Reggie. I went because I enjoyed the peacefulness. My first wife was Jewish, my second Catholic. I went to temple on Saturday for 12 years and to church on Sunday for 23 years. I have been to services in Europe in more Catholic churches than most religious people. I always enjoyed going to these services, still do occasionally. I enjoy the spirituality of the whole thing.

I am not against religion in anyway. What I am against are "the religious", those that try to impose their beliefs on me. I recieved an email this morning, something about boycotting some new U.S. coin because it doesn't contain the words "In God We Trust" on it. This is exactly what I mean. If you trust God, fine by me. If you don't, not a problem for me. If you have to have it embossed on a coin, my question is "why"? Won't you trust God if if it's not on a coin? Or, which is the crux of the issue, are you not satisfied until you MANDATE that it be embossed on coins to promote your beliefs? (I don't mean you specifically of course).
 

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While I was having my toast and tea this morning, I was remembering all the fun I had with Father Bill, the head honcho priest at Queen of Angels in Newport Beach. This was the church that I went to with my ex-wife almost every Sunday. Father Bill is retired now, moved back to his native Ireland. He was great fun to talk to. He loved my ex-wife's cooking and came by for dinner frequently. He knew I was a "non believer" and Grayce was always worried that we would have an argument, but we never did. Periodically I would tell Bill that he was full of shit, and he would laugh and dish it back to me. I'll tell you why we got along so well. He was so comfortable with his faith that he never tried to impose it on me. For instance, he would never say, "Jesus died for your sins". He would always say, "I believe that Jesus died for my sins". He kept it personal. I loved that man and miss him.
 

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I do not want to be the voice of reason, taxman, though I appreciate the sentiment. I don't want to be the voice of anything or to be anyone's voice, sometimes not even my own, LOL.

In the '60's, Bob Dylan used to get peppered by fans that said, "Bob, you are the voice of the times for us." and I always loved his comeback. "Go fuck yourselves and leave me alone." Bob was always a wordsmith, God knows he couldn't sing a lick.
 

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Mark,

Hearsay is what these guys are about. Evolution, is hearsay too. They have total faith in the word of Man. It's another religion, and possibly, a serious religion. They are going to supress all other religious beliefs at some point in time, do to their belief that the religion of Evolution, is king of all else.

They are going to limit free speech.

They are going to limit what you can read.

They are going to systematically run your life based on their religion, of evolution, and worship of the planet, or in a sense, worship of the creation, instead of worship of the creator.

The day is coming........

They think they are progressive thinkers, but their lack of knowledge, stops them from understanding and seeing that this is all old, all been done before.... nothing knew under the Son.
uh oh, he knows the plan... :-damnit

come on man, nobody here is sayin' any of that... at least not me.

theres already another thread about evolution being argued to death, why bring it up. the only person in here not being tolerant is you.
 
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