Yellow Bullet Forums banner

1 - 20 of 30 Posts

·
Moderator
Joined
·
11,805 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
While walking thru the staging lanes during this weekends Shakedown Virginia Event I noticed every car I saw in Outlaw 10.5 Class has radial tires on it. Seeing this is strange...

a) I don't have any issue with any team running radial tires. If the radial tire works best for you car and if it is allowed ( it is ) then all good with teams running it.

b) should radial tires have been permitted in Outlaw 10.5 ?? Don't bother answering this question as that ship has sailed out of port some time ago and once you let the genie out of the bottle no telling where things are gonna go. The fact is today most teams in outlaw 10.5 now run radial.

c) where does the 10.5 class go from here ??? I do believe some sort of decision should be made. The choices are:

1) make all teams running 10.5 class run 10.5 Tire

2) don't change anything... keep things as they are.

3) acknowledge Outlaw 10.5 class where the 10.5W slick no longer exists should be renamed something else ending 10.5 class as it was known for for almost 3 decades.


My own opinion: I'm a big fan of old school 10.5. I have nothing against radial tire equipped cars. If teams that are currently running the class now want to stay with radial tires then fine... I only ask / request that we consider coming up with a new name for the class. Outlaw Radial ?? Pro Radial ? I think it would be important to rename class so that we all can promote the hell out of the class and help grow it. To simply have an Outlaw 10.5 class where the teams run radial tire is not good for anybody nor the class. I hope the teams currently running class share their opinion on this.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
742 Posts
Tim Essick and myself were the only cars on the 10.5's. The 10.5 can still be competitive, time will tell.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
742 Posts
It can be competitive, but do you think high 70's are possible with the same rules?
The problem is that the 315 was allowed in the class at the current weights. The 10.5 tire was given a 150lb weight break, which no one can get out of their cars.

When the radial was shown to have an advantage, Jim & Dave added weight to the radial tire cars with a lockup, and the crying began. Fast forward, none of the teams that were doing the crying about the weight being added are running the class now, and if you can't get the weight out to take advantage of the break, why not run the radial?

So, yes I do think that mid to low 80's are possible on the 10.5 tire. 70's not so sure.

What I think is funny is that the reason that everyone liked the radial was "we want the tire to be the limiting factor" are the same that don't want to run the 10.5 tire, which is the limiting Factor :):)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
441 Posts
While walking thru the staging lanes during this weekends Shakedown Virginia Event I noticed every car I saw in Outlaw 10.5 Class has radial tires on it. Seeing this is strange...

a) I don't have any issue with any team running radial tires. If the radial tire works best for you car and if it is allowed ( it is ) then all good with teams running it.

b) should radial tires have been permitted in Outlaw 10.5 ?? Don't bother answering this question as that ship has sailed out of port some time ago and once you let the genie out of the bottle no telling where things are gonna go. The fact is today most teams in outlaw 10.5 now run radial.

c) where does the 10.5 class go from here ??? I do believe some sort of decision should be made. The choices are:

1) make all teams running 10.5 class run 10.5 Tire

2) don't change anything... keep things as they are.

3) acknowledge Outlaw 10.5 class where the 10.5W slick no longer exists should be renamed something else ending 10.5 class as it was known for for almost 3 decades.


My own opinion: I'm a big fan of old school 10.5. I have nothing against radial tire equipped cars. If teams that are currently running the class now want to stay with radial tires then fine... I only ask / request that we consider coming up with a new name for the class. Outlaw Radial ?? Pro Radial ? I think it would be important to rename class so that we all can promote the hell out of the class and help grow it. To simply have an Outlaw 10.5 class where the teams run radial tire is not good for anybody nor the class. I hope the teams currently running class share their opinion on this.
How about outlaw 315??
 

·
AMP Racing member
Joined
·
3,427 Posts
I’m not a racer in this class, so my opinion doesn’t mean shit. But, I’m a fan. I prefer the 10.5 to the radial.

Let’s just call it what it is... Outlaw Drag Radial
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
11,805 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Things change over time. The current outlaw 10.5W was in service for 30 years. Is it time to finally move on ? I’m not demanding anything ... I just want everyone to think about current deal.

Class identity is important: we want people to say “I want to run that class”.

We want sponsors to say “I want to sponsor that class”.

I just don’t think current name does serves class best. Again the guys running the class should get in on this. Come up with rules & a name and make rules that give each combo a chance to win. A 3.80’s target like Monty suggested would be nice for the new PRO OUTLAW class.

Also please add new rule saying each team must have 1 millennial male & 1 millennial female on team. We gotta change up boys before it’s toooo late.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
742 Posts

·
Confused Racer
Joined
·
39,664 Posts
How about everyone runs the 10.5 tire?? There are 3 other radial classes to go run in.
THIS^^^


What i can't figure out is, where were all of these radial supporters when monty had the outlaw radial class?

Jimmy needs to go back to his speech at that meeting we had years ago. The class is outlaw 10.5 that is the tire you run.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
441 Posts
How about everyone runs the 10.5 tire?? There are 3 other radial classes to go run in.
True Outlaw 10.5 was built on stock front frame rails and no dual rail in front of the firewall in addition to the tire. The firewall forward rules have since went to the way side to increase car count. Did that actually increase car count? “Cecil rules” was a legit set of “ street car” rules, while in the south and the west, they ran promods on 10.5 tires. Looking at things now we are basically steel roof and quarters with a promod chassis. We can make the argument that the firewall forward killed the class and that the tire debacle is icing on the cake. Or We can go back further and say that when everyone sat down and picked a direction to go with the 10.5 class, whether it should be extreme outlaw with no factory frame rails and/or dual rails is when the class was put on life support.

Let’s look at the availability of bias ply tires. Mickey Thompson only sells 10.5w tires to Cecil guys and haven’t done anything for it in a long time; Hoosiers making a 10.5 tire, who knows if it’s worth anything. If everyone switches to the radial and it’s no longer cost effective to manufacture the 10.5w tire, where does that leave the class??

The “radial revolution” is popular at the moment and in my opinion it gives the promoters something to play on and create an underdog situation, if you want to call it that, with the bias ply vs. the radials.

And if I remember correctly that radial tire was legal for awhile before anyone decided to run it.
 

·
Confused Racer
Joined
·
39,664 Posts
True Outlaw 10.5 was built on stock front frame rails and no dual rail in front of the firewall in addition to the tire. The firewall forward rules have since went to the way side to increase car count. Did that actually increase car count? “Cecil rules” was a legit set of “ street car” rules, while in the south and the west, they ran promods on 10.5 tires. Looking at things now we are basically steel roof and quarters with a promod chassis. We can make the argument that the firewall forward killed the class and that the tire debacle is icing on the cake. Or We can go back further and say that when everyone sat down and picked a direction to go with the 10.5 class, whether it should be extreme outlaw with no factory frame rails and/or dual rails is when the class was put on life support.

Let’s look at the availability of bias ply tires. Mickey Thompson only sells 10.5w tires to Cecil guys and haven’t done anything for it in a long time; Hoosiers making a 10.5 tire, who knows if it’s worth anything. If everyone switches to the radial and it’s no longer cost effective to manufacture the 10.5w tire, where does that leave the class??

The “radial revolution” is popular at the moment and in my opinion it gives the promoters something to play on and create an underdog situation, if you want to call it that, with the bias ply vs. the radials.

And if I remember correctly that radial tire was legal for awhile before anyone decided to run it.
a lot of 8.50 cars run the 10.5 w also as its the largest tire allowed
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,721 Posts
True Outlaw 10.5 was built on stock front frame rails and no dual rail in front of the firewall in addition to the tire. The firewall forward rules have since went to the way side to increase car count. Did that actually increase car count? “Cecil rules” was a legit set of “ street car” rules, while in the south and the west, they ran promods on 10.5 tires. Looking at things now we are basically steel roof and quarters with a promod chassis. We can make the argument that the firewall forward killed the class and that the tire debacle is icing on the cake. Or We can go back further and say that when everyone sat down and picked a direction to go with the 10.5 class, whether it should be extreme outlaw with no factory frame rails and/or dual rails is when the class was put on life support.

Let’s look at the availability of bias ply tires. Mickey Thompson only sells 10.5w tires to Cecil guys and haven’t done anything for it in a long time; Hoosiers making a 10.5 tire, who knows if it’s worth anything. If everyone switches to the radial and it’s no longer cost effective to manufacture the 10.5w tire, where does that leave the class??

The “radial revolution” is popular at the moment and in my opinion it gives the promoters something to play on and create an underdog situation, if you want to call it that, with the bias ply vs. the radials.

And if I remember correctly that radial tire was legal for awhile before anyone decided to run it
.

100% fact. I pulled a couple 2005-2007 rule books on social media today that showed "any tire smaller than a 10.5w was allowed".

The problem... or situation is no one paid attention to the little brother in the house. While the little brother got bigger and better he was ignored. Then one day you woke up and little brother whooped your ass and now you don't know what to do.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
136,273 Posts
Here are my opinions -

The class can go back to the slick (only) if the class can go mid 80's on them. Why? Because the class was stuck in a 4.00 rut since 2011 when Tim (4.02), Ulsch (4.05) and Casper (4.07) ran 4.0x at Shakedown. Does anyone want to see Outlaw 10.5 running 4.00's when LDR is running 4.0's now? Or X275 running 4.20's?

The class ET wise is in a perfect place where no other class is running the same ET's.

Changing the name? Can I ask how this would even help? Would it increase car count, spectator count? What exactly would it do?

Say the name changes to "Outlaw Greatest Awesomest Class Ever" and M/T or Hoosier release a new 10.5 tire? Do we bring the name back?

I think a name change is absolutely useless as it will do NOTHING for the class PERIOD!!

I see no issue with how the class is now. Yes it's on a radial but so what... If MT releases the new 10.5 that is also a radial construction.... Does that mean the 10.5 name would have to be changed? Does that mean we ban that tire also because it's radial construction?

There are just way too many classes nowadays and everything is watered down.. We will not get back to the year 2000 where 100 10.5 cars would show at Orlando..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,893 Posts
Outlaw Drag Radial? Stockish bodies and wheelbase keep the class cool, but it's not Outlaw 10.5 anymore.
That's kind of what I was thinking. Seems to be similar to a mix of LDR & ODR...sort of.
Is the track prep for Outlaw 10.5 now basically a radial prep or slick/big tire style prep?
 

·
Never hit Newbie Thread
Joined
·
10,393 Posts
May I ask a question here...

In all reality, how different is the prep for a radial car vs a slick tire? If one would have to put a dollar figure on the $$ for everything involved in prepping a lane for each tire, which prep costs more?


If the slick prep is cheaper, why not just go back to that? Wouldn't it basically "force" those on radials to go back to the slick??



Vanilla
 
1 - 20 of 30 Posts
Top