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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
This is a just a "what if" theoretical post, but I am giving it more and more thought. I really want to build a NA BBC to run down a lot of the boosted kids. These days, that's a serious machine, as 1000+whp is no big deal from a 5.3 with a ching-chong turbo. Basic parameters would be std deck, Dart alum block, heads(?) and definitely fuel injected and pump gas/E85. This would be in a 'street car', small tire/DR, mostly roll races, but I like going heads up- so maybe a chassis car. How far can I go? 1000whp, 1200whp? I realize at roughly 600ci, I would be 2+hp per cube, so that's probably not possible on pump. I do think I can get the weight down, obviously, this turns into a hp per lbs calculation= x speed. For sake of argument, figure a 2700-2800lbs vehicle, just for calculations. Just some thoughts, let me know what you think. My gut feeling is big bore- short stroke, 8000rpm in the build. I am just curious how far I can go or how far anyone else has gone. FYI, I already know everybody w/ boost will be laughing and crying "no way", but I like to beat up people bigger than me. So far, I have had good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Let's just throw 25k round about out there, for just the motor. Figure it's a reasonable starting point.
 

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Let's just throw 25k round about out there, for just the motor. Figure it's a reasonable starting point.
You're probably looking at more than double that for what you're after.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Ok, this is theoretical, so let's just toss the budget out for now. Maybe do a dual build, budget vs no budget. The big thing I am curious of is what top end and bore dia will get the power there.
 

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How would using 600 Inches to beat a 5.3 be beating on people bigger than you? Other people’s Ching Chong turbos are your motivation for building an engine? What about the domestic turbos? Where do the other power adders stand with you? You are fixing to spend over 30k to beat kids with less than 1/3rd of that in their engines. Where is the victory here?
 

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I would start with a Dart iron block since bore size will be very important. Then you need to decide if you want a conventional style head, spread port, or symmetrical pro stock style. Then define exactly what fuel you will use. You mentioned 1000 rwhp and 1200 rwhp, you better decide which because the money difference is huge!. Oh and 25 grand as mentioned will be doubled or tripled!.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Because I feel like it, that's the answer. Because NA power makes my day, that's the other answer. Not interested in turbos, NOS or superchargers or anything else. Just straight all motor. I have built plenty of boosted stuff, NOS stuff and not really in love with any of it. Big rpm and efficiency is my preference.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Again, base parameters will be pump gas/E85, alum Dart block(I'm not going iron unless the power difference more than makes up for the additional weight, which I don't think it will), preferably std deck. Heads-give me your recommendation. Will def be fuel injected, probably dual 4500tb's.
 

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Go to Tony Bishoff at BES. Tell him what you want to do,ask how much $$, write him a check for 50%. Have the rest of the $$ ready in about a year..

Otherwise, 632 Pro iron Dart block, SR20 heads by Slick Rick, Callies Magnum crank and Ultra Pro rods, Racetec pistons, .950"+ 60 MM cam, dry sump oil pump system, belt drive. Then there is still the machine shop to deal with and frequent maintenance. No dual purpose engine. When it stays together, but still won't run the number, take it to BES.
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
I appreciate the response, but I'm not a check writer, I build my own as much as I can. The Ultra rods are crap, have seen a few sets shatter at the big end. Carillo rods and problem solved. I'm WD with Racetec, so them for sure. I like the Callies stuff, but some of it is China. The dry sump, maybe. If I could stay wet sump, I would. Yeah, I don't take my stuff to anyone. I'll just figure it out, just takes time and $$$ :)

And it's going to be a Dart alum block, that's an absolute. I don't want iron unless it"s a 250hp difference, which I doubt. Correct me if I'm wrong, 632's won't rpm 8k will they? I was thinking more 565/585/602.

The SR20 heads are superior to a Profiler 12deg Hitman?
 

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Build yourself a 4.500" bore space sbc on the splayed valve or sb2.2 platform, around 450-480 cui.
It can make 1000+ HP and weigh less then the BBC.
Build it with aluminum if you want, but I'd do the brodix Hipped block or Donovan, not dart aluminum....
Beat them punks with a Gen 1 sbc platform....
That'll piss them off quicker then a BBC pro stock engine.
Just my opinion.
 

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I appreciate the response, but I'm not a check writer, I build my own as much as I can. The Ultra rods are crap, have seen a few sets shatter at the big end. Carillo rods and problem solved. I'm WD with Racetec, so them for sure. I like the Callies stuff, but some of it is China. The dry sump, maybe. If I could stay wet sump, I would. Yeah, I don't take my stuff to anyone. I'll just figure it out, just takes time and $$$ :)

And it's going to be a Dart alum block, that's an absolute. I don't want iron unless it"s a 250hp difference, which I doubt. Correct me if I'm wrong, 632's won't rpm 8k will they? I was thinking more 565/585/602.

The SR20 heads are superior to a Profiler 12deg Hitman?
STD deck [email protected] ?? That’s up there from my experience.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
RCM, thank you! That was what I was seeking, an intelligent answer. I am building several LS's and have built many SBF's and Buick's, but I am looking for a next level platform to make serious NA rpm/hp. I even thought about a Cleveland based architecture, but don't think I can build it big enough. Same problem with LS platform, can only go so big and you run out of room. You don't think I would need 500+ cubes? I would think I would want to build as a big a bore as possible, and have a stroke that would rpm and survive. More I think about this, it's really a build around the cylinder head, not so much the block. Thoughts?
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
I love when people say "you can't". Motivates me more. Honestly, I do like turbos, but the majority of people that run them can't build a fucking NA motor to save their life and they think they're God. They took the easy way out, for the most part. It's all power to weight and chassis prep at the end of the day. Look at the no prep scene, tons of power-more than they can use- and it's a chassis/tune race at the end of day.

If I build a tiny 2400lbs shit box w/ 1200whp NA, I promise anyone w/ as much boost as they want on the street will have a hard fucking time. At a certain point, the math/traction takes over. I am not even going to bring up hot-lapping at this point.
 

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I’d do the aluminum 9.800” block, 1-2% hp loss tops. I’d build the 565 if that’s as small as you want to go. The Raptor, Dart BC shallow valve angle type 2.500/1.800 heads sure sound good, I’d call Bischoff and get the heads, intake, and cam from him. I’d do a cast single 4500 intake with one of those 2400 cfm TB’s and a big air cleaner on top. 8 CW crank, Carrillo 6.635” rods, .~1.100” CH VGP flat top close pin boss pistons at +.070 deck, .120” Cometic gasket,, .9,.9, 2mm ring package high on the piston, 927” .220”+ wall DLC pins, custom wet sump baffles pan as large as you can fit, no screens/scrapers,etc.. vac pump, biggest cam core/Jesel lifter/pushrod diameters that will fit, steel rockers.
Rev it as far up as it makes power, and gear accordingly. I personally like the whole idea and your motivation for doing it.
 

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What about a 1300+hp ex pro stock engine. DRCE 2/3 ? Or hemi 99. I used to see them come up for sale under 20k carbs to pan. You could never build anything from scratch even close with that money. But valve springs maintenance would kill you as a street car.

Other option, 5.0 bore space, 700+ci 11+" deck height mountain motor with less camshaft in it. That's what i would do if i had to do a max effort N/A street car. With 33"x21" wide tires minimum. Basic plan - bigger everything. Plus the insane instant torque from hitting it on a roll in a 700+ci would be hard to beat (if you can get it to hook)
 

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I just look at the bigger the cui when you get into BBC 598/615/632 strokes it eats up frictional HP.
Sbc platform like I mentioned would be fine to 8500+ RPM and make the power to kick ass.
 
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