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NSCA

6K views 90 replies 24 participants last post by  Monty M 
#1 ·
Anyone have any leaked info about the new NSCA? Specifically targeting S/S.... If things are changing....again, I'd really like to get started on the new engine. If I have to wait until December to get the rules, we may as well not even race.
 
#52 ·
64HEMI330SEDAN said:
man you heads up street car cats crack me up!! ya ever wonder why so many people index race , bracket race,or run s/c ,sg,s/street as opposed to heads up racing? parity thats why.look at nhra and ihra sportsman racing.i/e comp eliminator go to fast cic gets ya. stock or super stock go to fast they change horsepoweror they lower your index.this whole idea of any heads up class with any restriction or rules is a joke.so no matter how much crap you talk about how bad you are there is always a good chance that someone out there is spent more or tweaked the rules that is gonna put you in your place.i presonally think you guys are nuts all the money you spend on your supposed street cars to win little to no moneyi say screw all these classes and run heads up indexes with a tenth cushion.thats just my 2 cents but who am i.i used to love the whole street car racing deal. i was at memphis in 95.its the greatest racing i had seen in my life.but just like everthing most everthing the all mighty dollar. and polotics have ruined it.
Come to Milan next Friday. Heads Up Racing is alive and well. :WGAF
 
#53 ·
Bob Curran said:
Camp, you don't want to be calling Mrs Squarepants a dipstick now! how it should have read was just shy of200 (actually 191 total) cars to race in the PRO race, yes that includes Open Comp, NMC, True Street and the other regular programs PRO puts on, the bracket deal for Sunday was not included in those numbers, Pro Street had 17 cars that filled out tech cards but with only 1 run it showed 15 that made it down the track. that is pretty good turn out if you look at all the other org's Pro Street/Pro 5.0 classes. Not busting ball here, but I did tell Mrs Squarepants those numbers, must not have got the heads up part right. you know that whole husband/wife communication thing.. someone said you came over but i was not around. See you in Stanton
Bob

I told myself that I was done with this thread, but i just can't "give up" now!

The first thing I would ask you is who in his right mind would call ANY woman a dipstick, especially one he doesn't know? "The wrath of God" comes to mind here. My numbers came from Scott' s qualifying sheets that were posted for the whole world to see. Pro Street actually had 17 cars down the race track, one who left before the tree was activated and one who did not make it all the way down. Its no never mind to me how many cars PRO did or did not have, it was the general "everything is better elsewhere" comments that even caused me to do something I try to never do, get involoved in a BB war of words. To Mr Mikho' s credit he was 110% rational and sane in our lil back and forth.

Tell the infamous Mrs Squarepants, no offense meant, none taken.The dipstick comment was below the 200 car comment. Yes I did come by to say hello but of course you were out somehere "stylin'"!

Camp
 
#54 ·
Monty's #1 fan said:
Jim M, trust me, I've been accused of everything under the sun including the murder of Jon Benet Ramsey... I can take the heat. You've been rather down on the NSCA here, and it's surprising, that's all- I really don't give a rip if most are taking pot shots, I expect no less from them. Some simply race the internet, and show up at local test and tunes, then act like they're racing geniuses... You've been out with us, for entire seasons. Rules, sponsorship maintenance, etc, it's harder than you can imagine 'till you get the chance the fuck it up yourself. You have my respect as a racer and as an acquaintance, and because of that, your anti-NSCA sentiment surprises me.

I screw up for the whole world to see. Internet jockeys have the luxury of sitting in their jammies and looking brilliant with no risk. NPS/SM didn't work, but I still think the essence of the combo platter could work. I was dead wrong about the racer's desire to make changes, though. I thought that even with some grumbling, it would work. I was wrong.

As far as blaming stuff on the racers, sometimes it IS their fault- any time a racer goes .5 faser than anyone in the class, he'll get his wings clipped. When class attendance drops, we are put in a corner, and the results aren't always the easiest to deal with. Like anything, it takes two. Both sides have dropped the ball, I'll take the credit for the NSCA's f'up's.
Patrick I will give ya props for having the balls to say you have made mistakes. Others within the orginization could only dream to have the same balls!! I have seen statements from others taking a shot at the racers!! Guess what the racers are the employees in a way and the spectators are the customers.. Well the customers aint coming and the employees are getting pissed for being the guys who take the blame most the time.. When things are going great the NSCA gets a huge pat on the back!! They take it all in.. But when the series does bad people point fingers at us.. Hmmm

Now lets talk about getting wings clipped. Your car is ahead of the pack right now. Will your combo be subject to change? How about BES being 3-4/10's ahead of the pack in S/S for a couple of years. Were they subject to change? If so why didnt it happen? Rather you stepped up the other guys in hopes they would catch up. Well they didn't.. Now Powski gets hit hard for putting up a stout number one time!! Again we as racers or internet keyboard racers are just sitting to see what happens. If stability, spectator count and classes we race in stick around for more than a year without major changes, even some of us internet racers who never really contributed anything to the NSCA may build a car to the NSCA rules.. once again.. But till then I will shop at the local stores who carry a product that will not be outdated in a years time..
 
#55 ·
64HEMI330SEDAN said:
man you heads up street car cats crack me up!! ya ever wonder why so many people index race , bracket race,or run s/c ,sg,s/street as opposed to heads up racing? parity thats why.look at nhra and ihra sportsman racing.i/e comp eliminator go to fast cic gets ya. stock or super stock go to fast they change horsepoweror they lower your index.this whole idea of any heads up class with any restriction or rules is a joke.so no matter how much crap you talk about how bad you are there is always a good chance that someone out there is spent more or tweaked the rules that is gonna put you in your place.i presonally think you guys are nuts all the money you spend on your supposed street cars to win little to no moneyi say screw all these classes and run heads up indexes with a tenth cushion.thats just my 2 cents but who am i.i used to love the whole street car racing deal. i was at memphis in 95.its the greatest racing i had seen in my life.but just like everthing most everthing the all mighty dollar. and polotics have ruined it.
Super Stock is boring to us heads up guys. Peterson Publishing agreed with this statement 100% and the NSCA was started.. Them are the facts. Why race with the NSCA super stock class? There is a lot more money out there in other places since that seems to be why you race!!
 
#57 ·
RFC said:
Mr.Budd,I've never met you,I'm crew member on a pro street team in PRO,I work nights and weekends on a racecar and your statement about " clipping wings" is exactly the reason why most pro street guys won't come race with your org. Having been around racecars most of my life I don't know why you cater your rules to two racers?When Steve King told me that you said," You can come race with us,but if you go fast,were gonna take weight off Marc" I said no way he said that.But I see it's true!!! What about when Mike Castilano went almost 3 tenths quicker than John Stanley in La.,No weight break for him! I have not had the pleasure of being introduced to Camp and John Stanley,but there alot more tolorant than my driver and I would be! Take a step back and look,It isn't only the racers that see all of this,It's the fans too!!!! :)
Mr RFC

Must work on a lil turbo pickup, huh?

I just had this very conversation with Mr Budd today. He said he did not mention Mr Dantoni specifically in his conversation with Steve. Do I agree or disagree with Pat's rules philosophy? Not in all of them for sure! But as Jim Monson said some time back "How about no rule book at all? " We all know that wont work.

As for the "almost 3/10ths" in LA. It most definitely may have been that in qualifying, because we couldn't hit our ass with both hands on Sat! Must have been the five months off. But Sunday was a completely different story. First round we went a .56 and Shannon Jenkins went a .49 I believe. We ran Shannon in the semis and he went a .48 and we were door handle to door handle with him at the 1/8th mile when we broke a blower belt! No need to be jumping on the organization when we cant do our job.

If you are be in The Big "O" in October, please come by and say hello.

Camp
 
#59 ·
OK I think I vented enough!! So do we all pull together and work on this deal or just give up? Budd's post is a perfect example of what I would think Tony should have posted. Kinda like this.. Someone works on your car. They charge you $1000 on repairs.. The car breaks 10 miles from the shop.. What do you want the mechanic to tell you?

A: Its your fault the car broke. You shouldn't have made a left turn at the light and should have went straight!!!

or

B: Wow I screwed up. I tried something new that I really thought would work! I promise I will make this right for you!!


^^ you decide how the business will be handled. But there is a lot to say about a business man taking the blame rather than point the blame elsewhere..
 
#62 ·
Camp Stanley said:
Monty Mikho said:
To Mr Mikho' s credit he was 110% rational and sane in our lil back and forth.

Did Camp just call me sane and rational?? :-D Im gonna hug ya when I see ya.... Ask Budd I aint shy.. I'll even give ya a kiss!! Im secure like that.. :smt005
Just no tonque, okay? I am secure in my manhood, old as it may be!

Oh no you dont Mr.Stanley... I have seen you in action. Indy Super Chevy.. Steak House! Do I say any more?


Vanilla
"Young Jedi in training"
 
#64 ·
[/quote]Camp, I was being a smart ass. When was the last time the NSCA actually printed a rule book? :smt005[/quote]

Jim

You being a smart ass, no way, say it aint so!

See there you go again, blaming stuff on people. There was one printed back in 1996, I do believe! But what about all the people who are telling us "the internet is it, the internet is it"?

I just singled your response our because it was appropriate. We all gotta have some kinda rules.
 
#67 ·
I've come to this conclusion even though what I think don't mean squat... I'll post it anyhow, so I make me feel good. :-D


I'd say we're all holding on by a thread in the traveling series. Speaking with Charlie Harmon on Friday it seems even they are being very cautious about their decisions and outlook, and by cautious I mean they do not have all the answers either.

Now Maple Grove was an absolute total SUCCESS for PRO in my opinion. I don't care about who thinks what, but that is the deal. Unfortunately, the rain killed the momentum. If not for the rain we would be left with a little awe at the results... even my class had good car count. True Street had 35 cars...!!! Mean Street is still growing and even Super Street had an actual CAR COUNT... not just 2. Still.. I sensed worry in Charlie Harmon and probably for good reason.

Anyone look at the gas pumps today? 3-3.50 per gallon. We got Soldiers over seas getting killed, our nation is in a culture war for the last 4-5 years, economy SUCKS compared to 10 years ago(this from a conservative)... and this is just the obvious stuff. RACING takes a back seat to all of it.... and that includes Spectators.

When I was a younger, I can remember rock concerts coming to town and selling out 3-4 nights..... on a continual basis... Now I don't know about you all, but that ain't happening around here no more. Things are just not what they were in terms of money, and priorities.

Todays priorities are the big Party, Internet, and Video games, and Work... not much else in the 15-35 crowd... I'm talking the masses. What the hell is racing to them???

Anyhow now that I'm babbling on tangents, all I will say is that both the gang at PRO, and NSCA must love this stuff more than me, because I would NEVER WANT TO BE IN THEIR SHOES!... thanks, but No thanks, that is working way too hard for the return.

Now back to your regularly scheduled program.
 
#68 ·
Again Chris the big picture is this. SPECTATORS!! Why will 15,000 come to Milan Friday night and only 200 the following weekend? They drive the same car with the same family with the same gas price to the same exact place. From a business stand point it should be looked at as it is a valid point no one seems to care about!! The NSCA brings in better caliber cars than the Firday night deal doesn't it? But yet people say :WGAF about the NSCA.. Again Im not bashing the NSCA but I have talked to a lot of spectators at the track Friday night.. But no one cares to hear the answer why.. I tried to talk about it face to face with one of the officals and I was called names and pretty much told to fuck off.. So I give up.. The answers will only come out when they are asked.. :-D
 
#69 ·
[quote="Monty Mikho]How about BES being 3-4/10's ahead of the pack in S/S for a couple of years. Were they subject to change? If so why didnt it happen? Rather you stepped up the other guys in hopes they would catch up. Well they didn't...[/quote]

Hang on, Monty... BES (Super Street - Nitrous) was given a hand in an attempt to compete with the turbo cars (like Elias & Millen) who were consistently going VERY FAST at the time. They were the performance bench mark for the time. Then Elias and Millen went away. BES (Super Street - Nitrous) shouldn't have the 'assistance' taken away just because the really fast turbo guys went away. Is the NSCA supposed to 'give & take' weight on the BES car based on which turbo cars showed up that year. "Sorry, Bischoff... Turbo guys didn't run as well this year. Gonna have to hang some weight on ya..." That's ridiculous, everybody knows what turbos are capable of - even if none of them consistently show up anymore. It's the percieved threat.

[quote="Monty Mikho]Now Powski gets hit hard for putting up a stout number one time![/quote]

If Filipowski did it once, the possibility to do it again is there. If there is ONE THING that the NSCA has done right, it's slap Filipowski. 90% of the drag radial class was/is nitrous. They majority should be protected at the expense of the minority. The minority is the group that should have to suffer the adjustments whether it's being speeded up or slowed down. The NSCA has repeatedly made the majority suffer at the hands of the minority. That needs to change and the Filipowski incident gives me hope that it is changing.

I think, no, I hope the NSCA has learned a lesson about what happens when you try to "pick up" the performances. That doesn't work.

Just remember - The faster you go the more it costs. The more it costs, the fewer who can afford to do it. The fewer who can afford to do it, the lower the car count. The lower the car count, the lower spectator count. It's a downward spiral.

3/4 of the Milan field is 'filler'. Only 3 or 4 cars are actually fast. But the fact that the car count is high is what brings the spectators in. And the more spectators that are there, the more racer that want to race in front of them. It's an upward spiral.

The NSCA needs to be burned completely to the ground and rebuilt from a clean sheet of paper.

One of the things I think the NSCA needs to be focused on is paying further back in the field rather then making the payout top-heavy. Only the top 2 guys are paided contingency. Let the contingency money bare some of the burden for paying the top 2. In order for that to work, the NSCA will need to completely restructure their contingency program & policies and become MILITANT in assuring that the winner and runner up receive their contingency money in a timely manner. Like I said, get more money to the back of the bus. It's FDR's trickle down economics. "Let me worry about how I'm going to get my junk to the track - you just help me get it home." Even if it is only enough to cover a tank or two of fuel for the old pick up and pack of Dolly Madisons and a 'Dew for the driver.

Entry fees should be based on class purse and performance level. Top performance classes w/top payouts - top entry fee. Lower performance classes w/lower pay out - lower entry fee. Face it, if you can afford to own a Pro Outlaw car, you can afford a stiff entry fee to go with it.

The classes need to structured by appearance and performance. We can't go on with all the classes looking about the same and running about the same. There needs to be much greater disparity in performance and appearance between classes and there needs to be obvious wrungs on the ladder from the grass roots entry level classes to the Pro level classes. There needs to be one fast big tire class - call it Pro-whatever and target it for 6.50-7.0 or so and do whatever it takes to keep it there. Delete Top Street and NPS. Super Street should be the premiere small tire(?) class in the NSCA. It only needs some minor work and a LOT of promoting. Target the 7.50-8.0 range for the class - and keep it there. Limited should be slowed down to about 8.50-9.0 and keep it there, after all it is called LIMITED street. Everytime Mustang Mike gets cocky and pops a number, pop him in the back of the head. Don't try to 'pick up' the rest of the class. Remember, the new NSCA is going to be about protecting the best interests of each classes majority power adder. Hot Street - Dump it or tailor it more like PRO's Pro Stock class. See if there is a non-traumatic way to roll Real Street into this class. Drag Radial SHOULD BE AN ENTRY LEVEL CLASS with entry level performances. These guys are the local track regulars who are going to 'run away and join the NSCA circus' as it leaves town. If the proper class hierarchy is in place, they might just begin to ascend that hierarchy.

The index classes are an important part of the organization and need to be streamlined as well. But I don't know enough about them to speak on the them. Oh yeah, Pro Nostalgia... Send'em to the indexed Nostalgia SS class. Maybe have the fastest 4 NSS cars face each other heads up in the final round of qualifying.

I hate to say it, but PRO's heads up class structure ain't all bad.

As for rules, I've always said we should be adding pages to the rule book each year, not taking them out. Dumping rules will do NOTHING to create parity. And with parity comes stability... Which we could all use a little of.
 
#70 ·
Mr Budd and Mr. Stanley, Yes that would be me. I never intended to bash NSCA,I think NSCA offers alot to heads-up drag racing,but why run 2 pro street style classes????On the other side of the coin I don't agree some of the politics PRO has done over the years.I'm not trying to stir the pot just asking questions. Mr. Stanley, maybe I don't have all my facts straight, but I HAVE SEEN Castilano's car go 6.36@195 in pro outlaw trim and I'm guessing there's more in it! Now I know Mr. Stanley, your team is very capable of putting good numbers,and are very good racers,but if anyone deserves a break you guys do! Trust me I know what it's like when you can't hit your ass with both hands!!! :lol: and YES if we make the BIG "O" I will stop by!
 
#74 ·
Monty Mikho said:
2091, please re-read your post and I believe you made some good points then you bashed the points yourself.. LOL I am upset with your writting skills today!! Get some sleep and repost tomorrow OK... :-D
I re-read my post and I'm not seeing what you speak of. Maybe it's too early and I didn't get enough sleep. Why don't you save me the effort and point out my contradictions for me OK. :-D

Looks like I picked a bad day to quit sniffing glue...

Nevermind, I found it. Amazing the amount of clarity that a good squeeze of Elmer's Glue in the left nostril will bring.
 
#76 ·
2091, you have some valid points, but I'm also confused with the "new structure" that you have it:

-Pro street, 6.5 to 7.0's. OK I can see that, combine the 2 Pro-Strret class and maybe a couple of Top Street car's.

- Super Street IS THE top 10.5 class. What else did you see. But ONLY 7.5 to 8.0. How can that be the TOP small tire class?

-Limited Street at 8.5 to 9.0. Well again I'm lost.

I agree with the Pro Stret Class. NPS Style combo class for the 7.5 range would do well with some rule refinements to slow the top big inch guys down. Therefore the S/M style cars that can't hang with Super Street can play. Super should stay in the 7.2 to 7.8 range. People want to see FAST as Hell 10.5 cars like they do at the local events. Limited like the OSCA Easy street class should be bottom 8's and maybe a DOT tire as well.

Just my 2 cents 8)
 
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