NSCA
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[/quote]Camp, I was being a smart ass. When was the last time the NSCA actually printed a rule book? :smt005[/quote]
Jim
You being a smart ass, no way, say it aint so!
See there you go again, blaming stuff on people. There was one printed back in 1996, I do believe! But what about all the people who are telling us "the internet is it, the internet is it"?
I just singled your response our because it was appropriate. We all gotta have some kinda rules.
Jim
You being a smart ass, no way, say it aint so!
See there you go again, blaming stuff on people. There was one printed back in 1996, I do believe! But what about all the people who are telling us "the internet is it, the internet is it"?
I just singled your response our because it was appropriate. We all gotta have some kinda rules.
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9,279 Posts
Nawwww, I think we need a little more anarchy. We need to shake things up!Camp Stanley said:
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I've come to this conclusion even though what I think don't mean squat... I'll post it anyhow, so I make me feel good. :-D
I'd say we're all holding on by a thread in the traveling series. Speaking with Charlie Harmon on Friday it seems even they are being very cautious about their decisions and outlook, and by cautious I mean they do not have all the answers either.
Now Maple Grove was an absolute total SUCCESS for PRO in my opinion. I don't care about who thinks what, but that is the deal. Unfortunately, the rain killed the momentum. If not for the rain we would be left with a little awe at the results... even my class had good car count. True Street had 35 cars...!!! Mean Street is still growing and even Super Street had an actual CAR COUNT... not just 2. Still.. I sensed worry in Charlie Harmon and probably for good reason.
Anyone look at the gas pumps today? 3-3.50 per gallon. We got Soldiers over seas getting killed, our nation is in a culture war for the last 4-5 years, economy SUCKS compared to 10 years ago(this from a conservative)... and this is just the obvious stuff. RACING takes a back seat to all of it.... and that includes Spectators.
When I was a younger, I can remember rock concerts coming to town and selling out 3-4 nights..... on a continual basis... Now I don't know about you all, but that ain't happening around here no more. Things are just not what they were in terms of money, and priorities.
Todays priorities are the big Party, Internet, and Video games, and Work... not much else in the 15-35 crowd... I'm talking the masses. What the hell is racing to them???
Anyhow now that I'm babbling on tangents, all I will say is that both the gang at PRO, and NSCA must love this stuff more than me, because I would NEVER WANT TO BE IN THEIR SHOES!... thanks, but No thanks, that is working way too hard for the return.
Now back to your regularly scheduled program.
I'd say we're all holding on by a thread in the traveling series. Speaking with Charlie Harmon on Friday it seems even they are being very cautious about their decisions and outlook, and by cautious I mean they do not have all the answers either.
Now Maple Grove was an absolute total SUCCESS for PRO in my opinion. I don't care about who thinks what, but that is the deal. Unfortunately, the rain killed the momentum. If not for the rain we would be left with a little awe at the results... even my class had good car count. True Street had 35 cars...!!! Mean Street is still growing and even Super Street had an actual CAR COUNT... not just 2. Still.. I sensed worry in Charlie Harmon and probably for good reason.
Anyone look at the gas pumps today? 3-3.50 per gallon. We got Soldiers over seas getting killed, our nation is in a culture war for the last 4-5 years, economy SUCKS compared to 10 years ago(this from a conservative)... and this is just the obvious stuff. RACING takes a back seat to all of it.... and that includes Spectators.
When I was a younger, I can remember rock concerts coming to town and selling out 3-4 nights..... on a continual basis... Now I don't know about you all, but that ain't happening around here no more. Things are just not what they were in terms of money, and priorities.
Todays priorities are the big Party, Internet, and Video games, and Work... not much else in the 15-35 crowd... I'm talking the masses. What the hell is racing to them???
Anyhow now that I'm babbling on tangents, all I will say is that both the gang at PRO, and NSCA must love this stuff more than me, because I would NEVER WANT TO BE IN THEIR SHOES!... thanks, but No thanks, that is working way too hard for the return.
Now back to your regularly scheduled program.
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Again Chris the big picture is this. SPECTATORS!! Why will 15,000 come to Milan Friday night and only 200 the following weekend? They drive the same car with the same family with the same gas price to the same exact place. From a business stand point it should be looked at as it is a valid point no one seems to care about!! The NSCA brings in better caliber cars than the Firday night deal doesn't it? But yet people say :WGAF about the NSCA.. Again Im not bashing the NSCA but I have talked to a lot of spectators at the track Friday night.. But no one cares to hear the answer why.. I tried to talk about it face to face with one of the officals and I was called names and pretty much told to fuck off.. So I give up.. The answers will only come out when they are asked.. :-D
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[quote="Monty Mikho]How about BES being 3-4/10's ahead of the pack in S/S for a couple of years. Were they subject to change? If so why didnt it happen? Rather you stepped up the other guys in hopes they would catch up. Well they didn't...[/quote]
Hang on, Monty... BES (Super Street - Nitrous) was given a hand in an attempt to compete with the turbo cars (like Elias & Millen) who were consistently going VERY FAST at the time. They were the performance bench mark for the time. Then Elias and Millen went away. BES (Super Street - Nitrous) shouldn't have the 'assistance' taken away just because the really fast turbo guys went away. Is the NSCA supposed to 'give & take' weight on the BES car based on which turbo cars showed up that year. "Sorry, Bischoff... Turbo guys didn't run as well this year. Gonna have to hang some weight on ya..." That's ridiculous, everybody knows what turbos are capable of - even if none of them consistently show up anymore. It's the percieved threat.
[quote="Monty Mikho]Now Powski gets hit hard for putting up a stout number one time![/quote]
If Filipowski did it once, the possibility to do it again is there. If there is ONE THING that the NSCA has done right, it's slap Filipowski. 90% of the drag radial class was/is nitrous. They majority should be protected at the expense of the minority. The minority is the group that should have to suffer the adjustments whether it's being speeded up or slowed down. The NSCA has repeatedly made the majority suffer at the hands of the minority. That needs to change and the Filipowski incident gives me hope that it is changing.
I think, no, I hope the NSCA has learned a lesson about what happens when you try to "pick up" the performances. That doesn't work.
Just remember - The faster you go the more it costs. The more it costs, the fewer who can afford to do it. The fewer who can afford to do it, the lower the car count. The lower the car count, the lower spectator count. It's a downward spiral.
3/4 of the Milan field is 'filler'. Only 3 or 4 cars are actually fast. But the fact that the car count is high is what brings the spectators in. And the more spectators that are there, the more racer that want to race in front of them. It's an upward spiral.
The NSCA needs to be burned completely to the ground and rebuilt from a clean sheet of paper.
One of the things I think the NSCA needs to be focused on is paying further back in the field rather then making the payout top-heavy. Only the top 2 guys are paided contingency. Let the contingency money bare some of the burden for paying the top 2. In order for that to work, the NSCA will need to completely restructure their contingency program & policies and become MILITANT in assuring that the winner and runner up receive their contingency money in a timely manner. Like I said, get more money to the back of the bus. It's FDR's trickle down economics. "Let me worry about how I'm going to get my junk to the track - you just help me get it home." Even if it is only enough to cover a tank or two of fuel for the old pick up and pack of Dolly Madisons and a 'Dew for the driver.
Entry fees should be based on class purse and performance level. Top performance classes w/top payouts - top entry fee. Lower performance classes w/lower pay out - lower entry fee. Face it, if you can afford to own a Pro Outlaw car, you can afford a stiff entry fee to go with it.
The classes need to structured by appearance and performance. We can't go on with all the classes looking about the same and running about the same. There needs to be much greater disparity in performance and appearance between classes and there needs to be obvious wrungs on the ladder from the grass roots entry level classes to the Pro level classes. There needs to be one fast big tire class - call it Pro-whatever and target it for 6.50-7.0 or so and do whatever it takes to keep it there. Delete Top Street and NPS. Super Street should be the premiere small tire(?) class in the NSCA. It only needs some minor work and a LOT of promoting. Target the 7.50-8.0 range for the class - and keep it there. Limited should be slowed down to about 8.50-9.0 and keep it there, after all it is called LIMITED street. Everytime Mustang Mike gets cocky and pops a number, pop him in the back of the head. Don't try to 'pick up' the rest of the class. Remember, the new NSCA is going to be about protecting the best interests of each classes majority power adder. Hot Street - Dump it or tailor it more like PRO's Pro Stock class. See if there is a non-traumatic way to roll Real Street into this class. Drag Radial SHOULD BE AN ENTRY LEVEL CLASS with entry level performances. These guys are the local track regulars who are going to 'run away and join the NSCA circus' as it leaves town. If the proper class hierarchy is in place, they might just begin to ascend that hierarchy.
The index classes are an important part of the organization and need to be streamlined as well. But I don't know enough about them to speak on the them. Oh yeah, Pro Nostalgia... Send'em to the indexed Nostalgia SS class. Maybe have the fastest 4 NSS cars face each other heads up in the final round of qualifying.
I hate to say it, but PRO's heads up class structure ain't all bad.
As for rules, I've always said we should be adding pages to the rule book each year, not taking them out. Dumping rules will do NOTHING to create parity. And with parity comes stability... Which we could all use a little of.
Hang on, Monty... BES (Super Street - Nitrous) was given a hand in an attempt to compete with the turbo cars (like Elias & Millen) who were consistently going VERY FAST at the time. They were the performance bench mark for the time. Then Elias and Millen went away. BES (Super Street - Nitrous) shouldn't have the 'assistance' taken away just because the really fast turbo guys went away. Is the NSCA supposed to 'give & take' weight on the BES car based on which turbo cars showed up that year. "Sorry, Bischoff... Turbo guys didn't run as well this year. Gonna have to hang some weight on ya..." That's ridiculous, everybody knows what turbos are capable of - even if none of them consistently show up anymore. It's the percieved threat.
[quote="Monty Mikho]Now Powski gets hit hard for putting up a stout number one time![/quote]
If Filipowski did it once, the possibility to do it again is there. If there is ONE THING that the NSCA has done right, it's slap Filipowski. 90% of the drag radial class was/is nitrous. They majority should be protected at the expense of the minority. The minority is the group that should have to suffer the adjustments whether it's being speeded up or slowed down. The NSCA has repeatedly made the majority suffer at the hands of the minority. That needs to change and the Filipowski incident gives me hope that it is changing.
I think, no, I hope the NSCA has learned a lesson about what happens when you try to "pick up" the performances. That doesn't work.
Just remember - The faster you go the more it costs. The more it costs, the fewer who can afford to do it. The fewer who can afford to do it, the lower the car count. The lower the car count, the lower spectator count. It's a downward spiral.
3/4 of the Milan field is 'filler'. Only 3 or 4 cars are actually fast. But the fact that the car count is high is what brings the spectators in. And the more spectators that are there, the more racer that want to race in front of them. It's an upward spiral.
The NSCA needs to be burned completely to the ground and rebuilt from a clean sheet of paper.
One of the things I think the NSCA needs to be focused on is paying further back in the field rather then making the payout top-heavy. Only the top 2 guys are paided contingency. Let the contingency money bare some of the burden for paying the top 2. In order for that to work, the NSCA will need to completely restructure their contingency program & policies and become MILITANT in assuring that the winner and runner up receive their contingency money in a timely manner. Like I said, get more money to the back of the bus. It's FDR's trickle down economics. "Let me worry about how I'm going to get my junk to the track - you just help me get it home." Even if it is only enough to cover a tank or two of fuel for the old pick up and pack of Dolly Madisons and a 'Dew for the driver.
Entry fees should be based on class purse and performance level. Top performance classes w/top payouts - top entry fee. Lower performance classes w/lower pay out - lower entry fee. Face it, if you can afford to own a Pro Outlaw car, you can afford a stiff entry fee to go with it.
The classes need to structured by appearance and performance. We can't go on with all the classes looking about the same and running about the same. There needs to be much greater disparity in performance and appearance between classes and there needs to be obvious wrungs on the ladder from the grass roots entry level classes to the Pro level classes. There needs to be one fast big tire class - call it Pro-whatever and target it for 6.50-7.0 or so and do whatever it takes to keep it there. Delete Top Street and NPS. Super Street should be the premiere small tire(?) class in the NSCA. It only needs some minor work and a LOT of promoting. Target the 7.50-8.0 range for the class - and keep it there. Limited should be slowed down to about 8.50-9.0 and keep it there, after all it is called LIMITED street. Everytime Mustang Mike gets cocky and pops a number, pop him in the back of the head. Don't try to 'pick up' the rest of the class. Remember, the new NSCA is going to be about protecting the best interests of each classes majority power adder. Hot Street - Dump it or tailor it more like PRO's Pro Stock class. See if there is a non-traumatic way to roll Real Street into this class. Drag Radial SHOULD BE AN ENTRY LEVEL CLASS with entry level performances. These guys are the local track regulars who are going to 'run away and join the NSCA circus' as it leaves town. If the proper class hierarchy is in place, they might just begin to ascend that hierarchy.
The index classes are an important part of the organization and need to be streamlined as well. But I don't know enough about them to speak on the them. Oh yeah, Pro Nostalgia... Send'em to the indexed Nostalgia SS class. Maybe have the fastest 4 NSS cars face each other heads up in the final round of qualifying.
I hate to say it, but PRO's heads up class structure ain't all bad.
As for rules, I've always said we should be adding pages to the rule book each year, not taking them out. Dumping rules will do NOTHING to create parity. And with parity comes stability... Which we could all use a little of.
Mr Budd and Mr. Stanley, Yes that would be me. I never intended to bash NSCA,I think NSCA offers alot to heads-up drag racing,but why run 2 pro street style classes????On the other side of the coin I don't agree some of the politics PRO has done over the years.I'm not trying to stir the pot just asking questions. Mr. Stanley, maybe I don't have all my facts straight, but I HAVE SEEN Castilano's car go [email protected] in pro outlaw trim and I'm guessing there's more in it! Now I know Mr. Stanley, your team is very capable of putting good numbers,and are very good racers,but if anyone deserves a break you guys do! Trust me I know what it's like when you can't hit your ass with both hands!!! :lol: and YES if we make the BIG "O" I will stop by!
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I re-read my post and I'm not seeing what you speak of. Maybe it's too early and I didn't get enough sleep. Why don't you save me the effort and point out my contradictions for me OK. :-DMonty Mikho said:
Looks like I picked a bad day to quit sniffing glue...
Nevermind, I found it. Amazing the amount of clarity that a good squeeze of Elmer's Glue in the left nostril will bring.
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2091, you have some valid points, but I'm also confused with the "new structure" that you have it:
-Pro street, 6.5 to 7.0's. OK I can see that, combine the 2 Pro-Strret class and maybe a couple of Top Street car's.
- Super Street IS THE top 10.5 class. What else did you see. But ONLY 7.5 to 8.0. How can that be the TOP small tire class?
-Limited Street at 8.5 to 9.0. Well again I'm lost.
I agree with the Pro Stret Class. NPS Style combo class for the 7.5 range would do well with some rule refinements to slow the top big inch guys down. Therefore the S/M style cars that can't hang with Super Street can play. Super should stay in the 7.2 to 7.8 range. People want to see FAST as Hell 10.5 cars like they do at the local events. Limited like the OSCA Easy street class should be bottom 8's and maybe a DOT tire as well.
Just my 2 cents 8)
-Pro street, 6.5 to 7.0's. OK I can see that, combine the 2 Pro-Strret class and maybe a couple of Top Street car's.
- Super Street IS THE top 10.5 class. What else did you see. But ONLY 7.5 to 8.0. How can that be the TOP small tire class?
-Limited Street at 8.5 to 9.0. Well again I'm lost.
I agree with the Pro Stret Class. NPS Style combo class for the 7.5 range would do well with some rule refinements to slow the top big inch guys down. Therefore the S/M style cars that can't hang with Super Street can play. Super should stay in the 7.2 to 7.8 range. People want to see FAST as Hell 10.5 cars like they do at the local events. Limited like the OSCA Easy street class should be bottom 8's and maybe a DOT tire as well.
Just my 2 cents 8)
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2091, it's obvious you fear of turbo cars. Even when they run slow they probably go faster than your junk. I just love nameless internet babblers like you. You are just a frustrated little man desperately holding onto a nitrous bottle aren't you? :lol: :smt005 :lol: :smt005 
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:smt005
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Oh... You're right... That IS a nitrous bottle I'm holding. Wow! I thought that the large, steelie feeling, blue thing I am holding on to was my cock... I'm sure you understand where the mistake could be made... If you can't see it, I'll show you... Pound it, you tea bagger...
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