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JACKASS
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So in your small mind, its impossible to understand the flaws of your very very simple religion without some credentials?

You are just as fucking moronic as dart.

And what did you get a degree in?? ditch digging?
No, simpleton, what I'm telling you is all you are doing is repeating what you have read and been told. Same thing you accuse believers of.



Makes you no better than me.



Oh, and as far as my degrees, it's called OJT, jack of all trades and master of none. At this moment in time, I'm in charge of 8 people and close to 4 million in parts and service sales, and my dick is 8" long. Your turn.
 

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I am not qualified to answer your question they way you worded it because I am a believer.

But the thing that every person who has opened their heart to God knows is you can feel his presence working in your life, you feel his spirit and it is all the evidence you need.

I can understand some of you guys don't believe but some of you on here get off on ridiculing believers which really shows your real character .
 

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pig hunter
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When the Muslims stop killing each other over ??????? I'm still not sure way they are killing each other but the faster they do the better.
 

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Beer Pong Champ (Retired)
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I am not qualified to answer your question they way you worded it because I am a believer.

But the thing that every person who has opened their heart to God knows is you can feel his presence working in your life, you feel his spirit and it is all the evidence you need.

I can understand some of you guys don't believe but some of you on here get off on ridiculing believers which really shows your real character .
If an uncle, brother, whatever in your family came home and started talking about his invisible friend Alfred, you'd do nothing? Went on and on about him, how he laid out the path to a great life, yet he lived in his head only. That's acceptable to you?
 

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pig hunter
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I find must believers need god so they have something to fall back on when they fuckup. It's a safety net for not manning up to there failures. The biggest fuckups just become born again and all is erased from the past. Just like the dude across the street from me that preaches the good word all the time. I found on the sex offenders list lmfao.
 

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I find must believers need god so they have something to fall back on when they fuckup. It's a safety net for not manning up to there failures. The biggest fuckups just become born again and all is erased from the past. Just like the dude across the street from that preaches the good word all the time. I found on the sex offenders list lmfao.
You are such an asshole for saying that. Don't you know you could hurt someone's feelings?!?!?! Heavens Nevins!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #54 ·
evidence.
That seems right but what specific evidence would convince you?

Given that people have halucinations and can be confused, can we even trust our own senses?

I don't think it could be done in one step for me.

First it would take some kind of double blind test on something like petitionary prayer and it would have to work.
Repeat DOUBLE BLIND not annecdotes!

As far as I know that has been tested many times and prayer has never shown to work beyond the margin of error.

I found this and thought it was well said.

What would a court record of Jesus’s execution prove, beyond that someone called Jesus, believed by his followers to be the son of God, was executed? We already know that his followers believed him to be the son of God. A court record of the execution would confirm that he existed, but not the existence of a god for him to be the son of. So no, that wouldn’t do it.
Again, a new contemporary source referring to Jesus would only support his existence, not his identity nor the existence of a god. So that wouldn’t do it either.
Same goes for a document written by Jesus himself, EVEN IF it could ever be shown to be genuinely by him, which it almost certainly couldn’t.
As for your other examples. Proof that we were created, for instance. Well, for starters, what might such proof possibly look like? It is certainly conceivable that we would find something that would challenge our current understanding, but how would that prove a creator rather than simply flag up another question to which we don’t currently have an answer? The lack of an answer for something doesn’t have to mean that Goddidit!
In any case, even if there WERE something that pointed incontrovertibly towards a creator, why should that mean it was a god who did the creating? Why couldn’t it be a super-intelligent alien civilisation that did it? For the record, I am not for one moment suggesting the existence of a super-intelligent alien civilisation, merely pointing out that God is not the default explanation!
God speaking to me personally? Well, we already know that the brain is very suggestible and that it can create very powerful illusions, even when not under the influence of drugs. So no, that wouldn’t be reliable evidence either. Besides, who’s to say that, if there WERE a real voice, it would have to be a god and not that super-intelligent alien again?
What might be evidence? Well, if prayer were consistently shown to work, that would get me thinking. Especially if, say, Christian prayers were always answered but Islamic/Hindu/Jain prayers were not. (Though even so, it could still just be a super-intelligent alien civilisation having some fun at our expense.) In reality, every properly conducted study has shown that prayer does NOT work – there is no correlation between prayer and outcomes.
Perhaps if this supposed God were to tell us something that we did not already know and which we could then test for ourselves and see that it was true: a cure for some currently totally incurable disease, for instance. (Carl Sagan wrote amusingly of the way alleged messages from God or aliens are invariably of the banal variety: ‘Be kind to one another’, ‘War is bad’; and never anything IMPRESSIVE, such as how to cure cancer or a comprehensible explanation of quantum mechanics or proof of Goedel’s Theorem.) But this, too, would only be evidence of a superior intelligence, and it could just as easily be those super-intelligent aliens again.
Actually, that isn’t true. It would be FAR MORE LIKELY to be super-intelligent aliens than God. Why? Because we know of natural processes by which intelligence forms on Earth (i.e. as a result of evolution by natural selection), and it therefore wouldn’t be unreasonable to assume that something either identical or very similar to evolution by natural selection had been at work on another planet in this vast universe, and had been so for longer than here on Earth and had therefore resulted in super-intelligence that might appear truly god-like to us inferior beings. It would still have been an entirely natural process.
But there is NO mechanism we know of which could possibly give rise to a god. The Christian claim that God was simply always there just won’t wash: there’s no reason to believe it, it’s simply special pleading, dreamed up, invented, imagined, as a way of trying to prevent the rest of the story simply falling apart. It has nothing whatsoever to support it beyond the wishful thinking of those who want to believe the rest of the story.
So I find it impossible to imagine what proof there might be for God, because it would always be possible to imagine a far more plausible naturalistic explanation (and, for the reason given above, even the most outlandish naturalistic explanation will always be more plausible than an uncreated god).
I can’t prove that there isn’t a god either, of course; but there is absolutely no good reason to believe in one, and that’s why I don’t. I don’t believe in a super-intelligent alien civilisation either, by the way: it’s just a less preposterous hypothesis than an uncreated god.
 

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I got a fuckin headache...
 

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pig hunter
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Nova dan, all of my family and the wife's family are bible thumpers. There some of the biggest assholes you could ever meet. Selfish, self centered, greedy etc etc that you could ever meet. I could write a novel at the back stabbing shit I have seen over the yrs. when the grandma died it was a lawyer war to see who could more. It made sick I left and never talked to any of them again.
 

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You are such an asshole for saying that. Don't you know you could hurt someone's feelings?!?!?! Heavens Nevins!!!
I know you'll just get a kick out of this but, when you join a place like this and you converse with people daily that you've never met its inevitable that your going to try to form some kind of opinion about what the person behind the key board is like. In the last few days you truly have shown that you must be a special kind of dirt bag. I mean any shred of common decency goes out the window just because your on the interwebs? I'm sure you'll say your just board and not serious, but your sense of humor shows you must be a real douche bag. If you need attention so bad try getting a life outside of TOBT dude.
 

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Beer Pong Champ (Retired)
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Nova dan, all of my family and the wife's family are bible thumpers. There some of the biggest assholes you could ever meet. Selfish, self centered, greedy etc etc that you could ever meet. I could write a novel at the back stabbing shit I have seen over the yrs. when the grandma died it was a lawyer war to see who could more. It made sick I left and never talked to any of them again.

I guess it comes down to there's a point where ya can't stand the fake bullshit anymore? For me, I won't say anything in front of someone's kids. I'll get up and leave the room or whatever if religion talk starts and I'm asked what my thoughts are. But if it's only adults in the room? Katie bar the door...I got no problem telling a grown adult their batshit crazy for believing in all that shit.

My girlfriends family all believe in God. Her dad is over the top born again. Her sisters don't say much at all, her one nephew is into the church. Her one brother in law has never said a word about religion, but when her father says a prayer at meals we look at each other in an awkward way as if to say "is this over yet"? But he's never said a word about it. It's come up a couple times that I don't believe. I just confirm that is true and say nothing more. It's not my place to go forward. But if pressed to express my thoughts, I'd tell them (out of earshot of their kids) I think their all nuts. And I'll deal with the end result of that. Life is too short to pretend that crazy ain't crazy.
 

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Beer Pong Champ (Retired)
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I know you'll just get a kick out of this but, when you join a place like this and you converse with people daily that you've never met its inevitable that your going to try to form some kind of opinion about what the person behind the key board is like. In the last few days you truly have shown that you must be a special kind of dirt bag. I mean any shred of common decency goes out the window just because your on the interwebs? I'm sure you'll say your just board and not serious, but your sense of humor shows you must be a real douche bag. If you need attention so bad try getting a life outside of TOBT dude.
If you think because I think you having invisible friends is crazy, and that makes me a dirtbag, so be it. But then you're just crazier than I thought. Go get some help.

How many voices do you hear in your head exactly anyway?
 
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