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Discussion Starter #1
I am looking at building a stripped AR lower (that i currently own), and want to go SBR with it. but since i have another AR already, owning the short barrel for this lower does that constitute intent to make the other SRB? how does thiat work? I would hate to run into issues for no reason. I know that i would not be able to swap back and fourth from one to the other but who cares. having one SBR is enough why would you need to swap them? I just wanna cover my ass before i even look at it. and yes i know i must have the SBR paperwork before buying the upper. not a big deal there. thanks for any info you guys can provide.
 

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If you've got an AR-15 pistol lower, a SBR, or a MG, you're good to go on possessing any number of <16" barrels for the same. The problem arises when you have none of those, but have a <16" barrel, as then you theoretically have no legal use for the short barrel. You can have as many different uppers for your AR-15 SBR as you want (after all, the lower is the SBR), and you can swap back and forth (even to a longer than 16" barrel) and the SBR retains it's quality as a registered SBR. Hope that helps.

P.S. - ATF just came out with a ruling on being able to go back and forth on pistol lowers recently, but I don't remember the exact ruling and don't have time to look it up right now... I think it was "as long as it was a pistol first, then it can always be changed to a rifle and back without becoming a SBR."
 

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If the lower is registered as a pistol then you cannot....cannot put a stock on it. If you already have a lower that you want classified and registered as an SBR then all you need to do is the paperwork, prints, passport photos and so on. The weird thing is that you can legally purchase a "shorty" upper...(less than 14") and it is not traceable. No serial number hence no trace. After all this the lower will always be considered an SBR and if sold even with a rifle length upper attached must be transfered into the new owners name. Which means another $200 to uncle SAM.
 

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Unless you have a pistol lower, it's best not to keep the barrel in the same location as any other AR15 until you have a stamp. You can own them both, and keep the barrel at the office/shop until you get your stamp. Even if the barrel wasn't assembled on an upper, they could still charge "constructive intent", if you happened to be arrested and have your house searched, or posted about it on a public forum!
 

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although dated, this is a good source of Class 3 and other information. I would really like to have an up dated version just in case there are some legal changes. When I printed this out I think it was 28 pages.

http://www.recguns.com/Sources/IIF1.html

Its been since 2001 - 2002 since I have really looked into this stuff and I realize that things change ( w/o them notifying me dammit ) So these are all questions.

Does an SBR require a 200$ tax, or is it 5$ ... or was that just for an " AOW " ( Any Other Weapon ).

I recall researching it once and thought a SBR was 5 $.

And as long as you get permission first, cant you add a stock to a Pistol for the 5 $ tax ?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Ok maybe I wasn't clear enough. I have a stripped lower and an AR15 rifle. My intent is to register thestripped lower as a SBR. Then buy everything to put it together. I would never purchase the parts to make an illegal firearm. I do not belive that is the way to go. After all $200 is not worth jail time. My question is once I have the tax stamp and purchase all the needed parts and build the stripped lower into a SBR. How does that work. Because technically I would have my other AR rifle and due to having a short upper could it also be considered an illegal firearm because the possibility ofswapping the uppers exists. I'm just trying to figure out how it's possible to own my current AR rifle and a SBR. I would have no reason or intent of swapping the uppers as why would you go through the hassle of doing it legally and then perform an illegal act? That makes no sence. I would liketotransport both back and fourth to the range at the same time. Wonder how that would work. (keep in mind in az I do not have to disassemble guns for transport) I guess a call to ATF my be needed. I wanna build a class 3 but want to know what's legal first. Again I want it known I have no intent on perfuming any illegal acts. I am toothy of a pussy for prison.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Sorry for the spelling and grammar mistakes I sent from my phone and tried to edit but was too late.
 

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I guess a call to ATF my be needed. I wanna build a class 3 but want to know what's legal first.
You just gave yourself the best advice, when dealing with such a serious (and somewhat confusing) issue.
Getting this type of advice on a forum can be a little risky !

If you can, please post ATF's response to your question. It may help clear up some of the confusion.
For instance: SBR's aren't an AOW, and do require the $200 tax stamp.
 

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First question: SBR stamp is $200 just like a suppressor.

Second question: Once you have a registered SBR you can have other legal length AR platform weapons. Because you always have the ability to reassemble your SBR. It's my understanding that if you were to have a spare Short upper and a spare lower you could be in trouble, but if you keep the un-registered rifles assembled as a legal weapon there is no issue!
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Just talked to the NFA branch. As long as they are assembled and the parts arenot swapped. Your fine. Because one rifle is registered as a rifle and the other is a short barreled. Just don't get them mixed up. And all will be fine.
 

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Good job ... thanks for posting the result of the call to BATFE ...
 

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I don't understand how I failed to explain that; not trying to be a dick, but was I too technical? If you have a SBR, an AR pistol, or a MG (MGs do not have barrel length requirements and there is no such thing as a SBR MG, unlike say, a suppressed MG needing two tax stamps), then you can have any parts laying around that you want, including complete <16" barreled uppers, SO LONG AS YOU NEVER ASSEMBLE A TITLE I GUN IN A TITLE II CONFIGURATION.

hammerhead, the letter I referenced is ATF ruling 2011-4: A pistol may be converted to a Title I rifle and back to a pistol so long as it is never in a Title II configuration at any point during assembly/disassembly. This is a new ruling (August 2nd) so I don't expect a lot of people are familiar with it yet.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Man I never said you were not correct. But bringing MG's and such into the mix made it a little confusing. I was asking about owning a legal SBR and having another AR rifle. Is there the possibility that it could be "intent" (in the eyes of the law) to make the rifle an illegal SBR. Due to owning the <16in upper. I'm wanting to make sure that is not a possibility. Before I sit down and go through the paperwork process.

On the supressor thing. Once you own it you can put it on any firearm as the supressor is the regulated item not the firearm correct?
 

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On the supressor thing. Once you own it you can put it on any firearm as the supressor is the regulated item not the firearm correct?
Correct the suppressor is the stamped item, if you have 3 AR15s and one .223 can, you are legal to switch them between the rifles!
 

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I don't understand how I failed to explain that; not trying to be a dick, but was I too technical? If you have a SBR, an AR pistol, or a MG (MGs do not have barrel length requirements and there is no such thing as a SBR MG, unlike say, a suppressed MG needing two tax stamps), then you can have any parts laying around that you want, including complete <16" barreled uppers, SO LONG AS YOU NEVER ASSEMBLE A TITLE I GUN IN A TITLE II CONFIGURATION.

hammerhead, the letter I referenced is ATF ruling 2011-4: A pistol may be converted to a Title I rifle and back to a pistol so long as it is never in a Title II configuration at any point during assembly/disassembly. This is a new ruling (August 2nd) so I don't expect a lot of people are familiar with it yet.
So based off this new ruling..I can buy an AR pistol and place a stock on it? Just asking....because this would negate someone stamping an AR SBR...and that means I should have waited to get my stamp and just wasted $200. LMAO.... My luck..
 

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Ok just read the ruling....this applies specifically to the Thompson contender line of firearms... there is no other mention of any other types listed. Only "unassembled kits" of rifle/pistol combos such as the contender that can be a pistol or a rifle when the stock assembly and barrel have been changed which is the way the weapon is sold. This ruling does not include AR's or variants of any sort. To the OP... submit your form and get the ball rolling...go ahead and purchase your parts and keep them locked away just in case. Or wait til you get the stamp back...either way will work I doubt you are on a watch list ... LOL...
 

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Sorry, OP it's hard to leave out the jargon with some of this stuff; I certainly didn't mean to confuse you! Basic bare-bones, is so long as you have a registered AR-15 SBR, you can have as many short barreled uppers as you like, so long as they are never put onto your lowers that are not a registered SBR. The LOWER is the SBR on an AR-15 platform, which doesn't make much sense, but that's the way ATF does it. The problem only occurs if the ONLY possible use would be for putting together an illegal gun, but since you have a lawful purpose (putting them on your SBR), you're GTG.

hammerhead, the ruling was based in part off of a court case that included T/C, but the actual ruling itself is the first paragraph, which does not include specific makes or models, only the general definitions/classifications in the CFRs. As the language stands, any pistol AR can be made into a rifle, and then back into a pistol, so long as the method is as such:

Remove <16" upper assembly
Remove Pistol Receiver Extension ("buffer tube")
Install Rifle Receiver Extension and Stock
Install >16" upper assembly
Remove >16" upper assembly
Remove Rifle Receiver Extension and Stock
Install Pistol Receiver Extension
Install <16" upper assembly.

Per the ruling, at no time have you either:
a) converted a firearm that was originally intended to be fired with two hands into a configuration meant to be fired with one hand, or
b) manufactured a rifle with a barrel length of <16" (SBR)

So, you have therefore not run afoul of the NFA. Gotta love government! If you want to really get nutty, you should check out the letter for IIRC a new Robinson Arms gun; it's got a VFG and a pistol receiver extension, with a barrel over 16" long. Due to the VFG, it's not a pistol, but due to the barrel length it's not an AOW, and because it lacks a stock, it's not a rifle; it is somehow still a "firearm," though!. LOL someone tried to put together a flowchart for how this shit all works, and it's hilarious to come up with configurations and try to guess which they are before looking through the chart.
 

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Either way its bureaucratic nomenclature at its finest !! They give you just enough rope to hang yourself!! LOL
 
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