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Discussion Starter #1
This car is getting out of control, Im sure you guys know the feeling.. Pulled our existing short block apart and its not going to handle the power we're intending on making.. So we're building a new short block.. Big M block, Callies Magnum, Callies H-Beams, pistons up in the air but looking at Diamond flat tops to get the static CR in the high 9's.. Also going to be running E85 and a twin screw.. Really love the idea of a 4" stroke over a 4.25", but wanted to get your opinions as I value the info on this site a great deal..
 

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This car is getting out of control, Im sure you guys know the feeling.. Pulled our existing short block apart and its not going to handle the power we're intending on making.. So we're building a new short block.. Big M block, Callies Magnum, Callies H-Beams, pistons up in the air but looking at Diamond flat tops to get the static CR in the high 9's.. Also going to be running E85 and a twin screw.. Really love the idea of a 4" stroke over a 4.25", but wanted to get your opinions as I value the info on this site a great deal..
Lets talk bore size I would not go larger than 4.560 with boost and the 4.00 stroke is my choice because you will end with a tall pin height on the piston which may not leave much room for a decent rod. Plus the 4.250 will just add more torque down low which won't help traction.

Also how much power are talking because E85 does not like high inlet temps so keep that in mind.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Lets talk bore size I would not go larger than 4.560 with boost and the 4.00 stroke is my choice because you will end with a tall pin height on the piston which may not leave much room for a decent rod. Plus the 4.250 will just add more torque down low which won't help traction.

Also how much power are talking because E85 does not like high inlet temps so keep that in mind.

Nervous about predetonation with the 4.6 bore?

Power numbers are only going to be a guess as we’re going to run the 510ax which has little to no info out there on them outside of offshore racing.. At 3400cfm which is similar to an F3-130, I’m guessing 2000ish?
 

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I'm building a new E-85 combo and I'm going with a 4.600 bore because the heads require it and a 4" arm.
I already have nice .270 Billet Carrillo's, so my thinking is the 4" will give it the best piston with the boost planned??
Not trying to set the world on fire, just want to run a decent number consistently, and know we won't qualify for the big events, big deal.
Nothing wrong with racing local stuff only, which I will qualify for easily with this combo.

I guess at some point if I win the lotto, I can buy new pulley's :rolleyes: :cool: :rolleyes: but until then,
I would rather go rounds consistently than trying to be some top dog.

Good luck, race safe.

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Discussion Starter #5
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I'm building a new E-85 combo and I'm going with a 4.600 bore because the heads require it and a 4" arm.
I already have nice .270 Billet Carrillo's, so my thinking is the 4" will give it the best piston with the boost planned??
Not trying to set the world on fire, just want to run a decent number consistently, and know we won't qualify for the big events, big deal.
Nothing wrong with racing local stuff only, which I will qualify for easily with this combo.

I guess at some point if I win the lotto, I can buy new pulley's :rolleyes: :cool: :rolleyes: but until then,
I would rather go rounds consistently than trying to be some top dog.

Good luck, race safe.

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Curious with what type of heads are you running?
 

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T/S 368E
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Because the blower is limited to 25psi boost build for naturally aspirated power ( cubes) .
Spin the blower hard and but not the engine.
If you prefer or aim to spin the motor high rpm get a shorter crank. 4 or possibly shorter then open up the bore . (4.6)
Compression is the same for either engine given the properties of E-85.
 

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Nervous about predetonation with the 4.6 bore?

Power numbers are only going to be a guess as we’re going to run the 510ax which has little to no info out there on them outside of offshore racing.. At 3400cfm which is similar to an F3-130, I’m guessing 2000ish?
With the 4.840 bore spacing the bore gets too thin for power adder use and moves around, plus head gaskets get thin in that area. Now some do make it work with big power but many do not. I have seen a few at 4.625 and it just did not work.........4.600 is better for sure but not optimal either. Its better to to stay in the 4.500-4.560 bore range and use a 4.00 stroke and end up with 509-522 cid. You will make plenty of power trust me.
 

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4.60 bore with Dart big M block and blower is not a good idea. Cylinder wall flex is hard on pistons and rings. Personally I prefer 4.50 max ......and 4.25 stroke. I've tried a lot of different bore stroke combinations and the 540 seems the best all around.
 

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T/S 368E
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So a small head with smaller valves is preferred, so you can keep the meat as support for the added cylinder pressures over a better race head??
The block is still at 4.500, so I can go either way, I just wanted to update my heads when I built the new engine.

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Discussion Starter #11
Ive heard that about the 4.6 bore moving too much numerous times but thought that was more with the aluminum blocks, not the iron.. You think a 4.6 bore would be stable in a cgi block, or stay with a 4.5 bore regardless of the block?
 

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Ive heard that about the 4.6 bore moving too much numerous times but thought that was more with the aluminum blocks, not the iron.. You think a 4.6 bore would be stable in a cgi block, or stay with a 4.5 bore regardless of the block?
No the 4.600 bore will not be stable in a CGI block, 4.500-4.560 bore is the range for boosted 4.840 blocks. The 4.900 bore space blocks can go 4.600 with boost safely.
 

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So a small head with smaller valves is preferred, so you can keep the meat as support for the added cylinder pressures over a better race head??
The block is still at 4.500, so I can go either way, I just wanted to update my heads when I built the new engine.

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4.500-4.560 will still accept some pretty big valves in the 2.400-2.450 range so what is your idea of small?
 

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T/S 368E
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Sticking with conventional with the 2.30's is small compared to a full race head with 2.45's like I was considering.
I wanted to go conventional, but also wanted to make damn sure we can run the index I want also.

I've bought the wrong stuff too many damn times over the years, and this will be my last combination, and need to do it once, do it right!!!

I did talk to a Pro-Charger expert at the Division race last night and he recommended the F-1X-12.
No need for a F3 so one less decision to figure out!!

One plus is with a conventional head, I can go to 4.505 and get maximum strength, if it will run the number I want.

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Growler, what class are you trying to run??

I'm looking for a mild tune up that will run a 6.90 index in 95* heat.
Low maintenance, no freshening up during the season type combination.

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Discussion Starter #16
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Growler, what class are you trying to run??

I'm looking for a mild tune up that will run a 6.90 index in 95* heat.
Low maintenance, no freshening up during the season type combination.

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No class, this will be mainly a street car that I’ll race here and there but has the potential to become more of a racer down the line.. I just want to build it right, and not take shortcuts the first time which is why I want to go “overboard” in most people’s eyes.. Overkill is underrated imo.. I also want to build the right block for the heads that I just had made up by Tony Mamo, who did an incredible job..
 

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No class, this will be mainly a street car that I’ll race here and there but has the potential to become more of a racer down the line.. I just want to build it right, and not take shortcuts the first time which is why I want to go “overboard” in most people’s eyes.. Overkill is underrated imo.. I also want to build the right block for the heads that I just had made up by Tony Mamo, who did an incredible job..
Then build a 4.500 bore x 4.00 inch stroke short block and you can make way more power than you can use and not have to worry about it.
 

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How fast do you want to go?.....My 540 F3-139 ProCharged dragster will run in the 5.80's at 240 plus. 6.0's detunned. 4.60 bore steel blocks will eventually crack at a stud over into the bore, plus hard on pistons and rings. Personal experience with two blocks. The last one had a 14-71HH on it and ran Street Outlaw. Six cylinders cracked at stud hole with 4.60 bore.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
How fast do you want to go?.....My 540 F3-139 ProCharged dragster will run in the 5.80's at 240 plus. 6.0's detunned. 4.60 bore steel blocks will eventually crack at a stud over into the bore, plus hard on pistons and rings. Personal experience with two blocks. The last one had a 14-71HH on it and ran Street Outlaw. Six cylinders cracked at stud hole with 4.60 bore.


Ugh, that sucks!! Not sure, she’s a little fat at 2900 and a street queen but I’d like to be in the low 6’s... Friend of mine has an old outlaw that runs mid 6’s and I have to be faster just for bragging rights :)

The heads Tony built are a 320cc conventional head of an AFR casting with a lot of massaging.. He’s estimating they should flow as good as the 357/377’s with better velocity, but we’re built with a low 500 inches in mind..
 

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Ugh, that sucks!! Not sure, she’s a little fat at 2900 and a street queen but I’d like to be in the low 6’s... Friend of mine has an old outlaw that runs mid 6’s and I have to be faster just for bragging rights :)

The heads Tony built are a 320cc conventional head of an AFR casting with a lot of massaging.. He’s estimating they should flow as good as the 357/377’s with better velocity, but we’re built with a low 500 inches in mind..
Is that 1/4 or 1/8 mile?
 
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