I know this may be a dumb question but I need some info. I am thinking about converting my car to methanol because I can get it alot cheaper than racegas to start with. I know I need to change carbs,any you might recomend without spending a fortune?? Also I probably need to change plugs,any info here would help a bunch,also any tips you may have for methenol.I do drive this car on the street maybe once a month to work on friday or to shake up the pro burger king cars at the local burger joint,I am wondering about overheating and such driving say about 15 miles each way,thanks in advance for any help or tips. :-D
Methanol Question
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need an alky carb
need alky fuel pump
its corrosive to foam in fuel cells, fuel lines etc...
you use twice as much fuel when running it.
need more compression to make it work right (13:1+)
going to be changing your oil a lot, like after a day at the track or a weekend of cruising.
you'll need a good ignition system.
you run a lot cooler with this fuel
cam....too much ex. duration is bad....so i hear
The tuning window is much wider with methonal then with gas so your tune doesn't have to be right on the money
i researched it for a long time cause i wanted to run it. i have found way more pro's then con's to running it, if its a high compression race engine.
need alky fuel pump
its corrosive to foam in fuel cells, fuel lines etc...
you use twice as much fuel when running it.
need more compression to make it work right (13:1+)
going to be changing your oil a lot, like after a day at the track or a weekend of cruising.
you'll need a good ignition system.
you run a lot cooler with this fuel
cam....too much ex. duration is bad....so i hear
The tuning window is much wider with methonal then with gas so your tune doesn't have to be right on the money
i researched it for a long time cause i wanted to run it. i have found way more pro's then con's to running it, if its a high compression race engine.
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5,695 Posts
Advice:
-Run a good "top-lube" - this will slow down greatly the corrosiveness of the fuel.
-Run a "Rupert" built carb if going to alky
-Big Compression is NOT needed
-Put a smaller radiator in the car, warm up times increased greatly even with lean-out
-Get somebody to teach you how to read plugs that runs alky, you will run quicker and way more consistant
-Get used to milky looking Oil ( I slowed it down by running an electric vacuum pump after the engine was shut off) Really bad looking oil is a result of a poor sealing engine.
Tom Cowle
-Run a good "top-lube" - this will slow down greatly the corrosiveness of the fuel.
-Run a "Rupert" built carb if going to alky
-Big Compression is NOT needed
-Put a smaller radiator in the car, warm up times increased greatly even with lean-out
-Get somebody to teach you how to read plugs that runs alky, you will run quicker and way more consistant
-Get used to milky looking Oil ( I slowed it down by running an electric vacuum pump after the engine was shut off) Really bad looking oil is a result of a poor sealing engine.
Tom Cowle
compression is around 10.1. Do I remove fuel cell foam completly???
Car has MSD Billit dist. and MSD 6A, has a pretty nasty roller,already has a small rad. I assume top lube is an additive to the alky? Will it eat aluminum fuel lines, if so how do I keep an eye on this? Thanks guy's, a little more info brfore I make the swich.
Car has MSD Billit dist. and MSD 6A, has a pretty nasty roller,already has a small rad. I assume top lube is an additive to the alky? Will it eat aluminum fuel lines, if so how do I keep an eye on this? Thanks guy's, a little more info brfore I make the swich.
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Your compression is fine, remove the foam completely. Yes, top lube is an additive to the alky, if your worried about your lines drain them at the end of the night. Visual inspection to check for corrosiveness. You'll love the stuff.
tom cowle
tom cowle
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Rupert
Send your existing carb out to him to have it tweaked, its not all that expensive to have him work on your carb versus buying a new one.
Send your existing carb out to him to have it tweaked, its not all that expensive to have him work on your carb versus buying a new one.
The biggest problem i can think of for street use is the volume of fuel needed, which is 2.2 times that of gasoline. That is a lot of fuel!
another problem is trying to keep the motor lean under cruise conditions and idle, to help with the oil problem and give some semblance of milage, so you don't run out five miles from home!!.
Third, keeping engine temp up around 190 degrees will definately help with the oil, and i don't have to change mine very often because the heat boils the alky away.
Water is the main byproduct of methanol, and there will be some getting by into the oil, and getting the temp up around 220 for a while will cure that. I have had oil that looked like chocolate milk, and after heating the motor to 220 degrees, it boiled all of the water and alky away. Alky boils at 149, water 212, so the higher temp is needed to get rid of both.
I have run the same oil in my drag car on alky longer than i would have on gas, because gas can mix with oil and ruin it, alky can't and will boil away if gotten warm enough.
Methanol needs LESS timing than gasoline, about 2 degrees less.
It is improtant to clear the engine of any fuel residue when you shut it off for the day, to keep corrosion down. I run a top lube,(klotz brand) and with an injecter I can just shut the fuel off and let it starve, don't know what to do about a carb setup, other than maybe having a large enough leanout (1/2 inch?) so you could open it up and crank the motor with the ignition on to clear out the cylinders without pulling more fuel.
another problem is trying to keep the motor lean under cruise conditions and idle, to help with the oil problem and give some semblance of milage, so you don't run out five miles from home!!.
Third, keeping engine temp up around 190 degrees will definately help with the oil, and i don't have to change mine very often because the heat boils the alky away.
Water is the main byproduct of methanol, and there will be some getting by into the oil, and getting the temp up around 220 for a while will cure that. I have had oil that looked like chocolate milk, and after heating the motor to 220 degrees, it boiled all of the water and alky away. Alky boils at 149, water 212, so the higher temp is needed to get rid of both.
I have run the same oil in my drag car on alky longer than i would have on gas, because gas can mix with oil and ruin it, alky can't and will boil away if gotten warm enough.
Methanol needs LESS timing than gasoline, about 2 degrees less.
It is improtant to clear the engine of any fuel residue when you shut it off for the day, to keep corrosion down. I run a top lube,(klotz brand) and with an injecter I can just shut the fuel off and let it starve, don't know what to do about a carb setup, other than maybe having a large enough leanout (1/2 inch?) so you could open it up and crank the motor with the ignition on to clear out the cylinders without pulling more fuel.
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WOW! This is good info. Is it necessary to drain the carb after the weekend until the next race day/street cruise day? How much is methenol per gallon? I always thought alky wanted MORE timing because of being slow burning but if it actually requires less I guess that's better. I have been considering alcohol myself since race gas will most likely go up 50% or more next year plus it's difficult to get the octane I need here where I live and alcohol is plentiful locally(roundy round tracks). I have some questions too while the topic is still hot:
-Do the top/2nd rings get gapped tighter for alky?
-Will alky corrode steel fuel tank and steel AN fittings?
-Is there a general percentage power increase at diffeent compression ratios when switching to alky?
-Does the cam need to be different for alcohol like a wider/narrower LSA or more/less duration or installed on a different ICL compared to a gas grind?
-Alcohol carbs need to be less CFM than idea carbs for gas?
-Is the power gain at hight 14/15:1 compression ratios dramatic or same basic improvement as lower compression engines?
-Is teflon lined steel braided hose compatible with alky?
Thanks
-Do the top/2nd rings get gapped tighter for alky?
-Will alky corrode steel fuel tank and steel AN fittings?
-Is there a general percentage power increase at diffeent compression ratios when switching to alky?
-Does the cam need to be different for alcohol like a wider/narrower LSA or more/less duration or installed on a different ICL compared to a gas grind?
-Alcohol carbs need to be less CFM than idea carbs for gas?
-Is the power gain at hight 14/15:1 compression ratios dramatic or same basic improvement as lower compression engines?
-Is teflon lined steel braided hose compatible with alky?
Thanks
Rings are gapped the same.89 coupe said:
Any aluminum not anodized is subject to corrosion
A lot of the gains for alky come when a motor gets an alky setup and the gas setup was never optimized. I only gained about .10 in the 1/4 on my dart. Injecters make more power due to less restirction to the airflow.
Same cam worked for me
Carbs can be the same size as will work for gas
Optimum compression is 14/1 to about 14.25/1, after that problems arise
If you intend to do any street driving with methanol, I'd suggest you contact APD about a carb. Their programs tend to idle much leaner than Rupert's and they perform about the same at WOT.
Lean idle is going to help you a LOT on the street (driveability and less oil contamination). Rupert's will not have throttle response if you attempt to lean it yourself.
Also agree that you do not have to run higher compression. Methanol has been successfully run in 9 to 1 oval track engines many, many times.
You may want to consider shortening the duration on your cam, especially the exhaust side. Methanol burns later so big exhaust duration will cause torque loss.
Lean idle is going to help you a LOT on the street (driveability and less oil contamination). Rupert's will not have throttle response if you attempt to lean it yourself.
Also agree that you do not have to run higher compression. Methanol has been successfully run in 9 to 1 oval track engines many, many times.
You may want to consider shortening the duration on your cam, especially the exhaust side. Methanol burns later so big exhaust duration will cause torque loss.
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No range, if they are having range issues its a fuel delivery issue and not fuel related.
I've used it on the streets and I was in the 1.5 gallons versus 1.0 gallon of gas range. I ran a BLAKE built alky carb, it was not cheap but it worked like a swiss watch.
tom cowle
I've used it on the streets and I was in the 1.5 gallons versus 1.0 gallon of gas range. I ran a BLAKE built alky carb, it was not cheap but it worked like a swiss watch.
tom cowle
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