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Discussion Starter #21
I have many more data logs now as i look for this solution to this issue. The occurrence happens most as the engine is getting closer to operating temps. I do not believe it is a temp issue as it has happened as early as 150f and as late as 175f , it just takes a while to warm up to that temp as i have a restrictor and not a thermostat. As i have done more data logs I have noticed that the engine will be running clean and respond to throttle changes well , I have done a couple of short launches and the engines revs cleanly to 6400. As i said the engine will be running well for a period of time and then it will change sometimes starting with a lean bog when i rev the engine and then the engine will start noticeably start running rougher and the graph on the O2 sensors go erratic and then shortly after the engine dies and does not restart. always after the car just sitting for a couple of hours or so the car fires back up and runs well again. I have had the filler cap off the tank and seen no changes. I have a mechanical fuel pressure gauge installed and it is 1 psi different than i see in tuner studio and never changes during this event where the engine dies, the mechanical gauge also shows good pressure when i try and restart. I have also loosened the fuel rails when the car will not restart and there is physically fuel pressure on the rails which verifies the mechanical gauge and the tuner studio reading.
I have been Emailing Matt and Ben and they are focused on fuel delivery issues. Yesterdays email with them had me verify scaling for the sensor, it was correct.
On the MS extra forum a person noted i should change settings in tuner studio to reflect the fact my regulator is not boost referenced , I will find those settings later today and evaluate the results.
 

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Do you have a log posted somewhere of when it dies, and of the attempt to start it back up? Just curious what the injector pwm, and timing advance is during all this.
 

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Discussion Starter #24
Also just to clarify on the 20 seconds time line that was with the resister spark plugs. When I changed plugs it does not have that particular symptom
 

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On the restart attempt, you only have about 15 psi fuel pressure. Just before you start grinding on the starter, you had 0 psi fuel pressure. I too think it's somewhere in your fuel delivery, but I don't have a clue as to where to start looking. I'd probably try a known good fpr first, and put the fuel pressure sensor at the rails.
 

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Discussion Starter #28
That is not accurate data. I received an email from Ben yesterday and found out i have to address fuel pump data location in the fuel pump and pressure settings to the sensor i am actually using to get the data in megalog viewer to display correctly.
During the restart, and the engine dying events , I have 42-43 psi fuel pressure physically as proved with a mechanical gauge.
I will get a data log today with what i hope will be correct fuel pressure values.
 

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Dude, turn all that shit off. Run it on one pump via pulling the fuse for the 2nd pump or unhooking the wiring to it.

Get it running without any correction of any nature and tune on it straight on the fuel and timing table. No input control of any kind. Turn off the warmup enrichments (WUE), after start enrichements (ASE), accel or decel enrichments etc including fuel pump control.

Once you have it idling and starting at operating temperature consistently, then start adding one enrichment or control/input at a time. All of this can be done in 2-4 hours of messing around with it. Presently you have no way of knowing exactly what is causing what imo.
 

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110614


Why does your IAC warmup curve have this dip into the 40's???

Also, you have your injector trim set to adjust based on EGT's, but you don't have any EGT's according to your msq that you posted ont he MS Forum
 

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There is a reason a few of us are suggestion what the Nail is suggesting.. We have been there and when you are there, you need ways to eliminate the noise and confusion and reduce the possibilities, then reintroduce them one at a time until your problem shows back up.You don't need ANY of that stuff to idle the engine. Go to the basics and ease back in allowing ECU assistance.
 

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Turn off ego correction set it to 0 authority, start the engine up, as it warming up u should be able to see on ur wideband and should have a wideband if u dont ur wasting ur time. But if u have ur wideband u should be able to see if ur engine is getting rich or lean as it warms up then adjust fuel ve table accordingly, once u get the car to idle at running temp u can turn it of let it sit overnight then start it again, as it starts u tune ur warmup enrichment either leaner or richer u should be able to tell on ur wideband. If u dont have a wideband ur wasting ur time and everyone else's lol
 

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Discussion Starter #34
I will turn off the EGO correction today and log the results. I did not notice the injector trims set to EGT's , I did not enter that it must have defaulted to that. I will correct that.
Matt made the comment in email yesterday I am on version 1.5.2 beta 6 and asked if it worked better on a different version. I have only used this one version and after i try turning off EGO correction and warm up enrichment and see what the results are I will try a different version.

FYI I do have wide bands on both banks .
As far as IAC my ouputs for that do not work so it has no bearing on engine functions. Idle rpm is set with the throttle blade screw.
 

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You ought to get the IAC working, it makes the idle tuning and startup so much easier. But it can be done without. For now I'd unplug it if I were you to confirm that it is not causing some janky issue that you are unaware of because you believe it's not working.

As referenced/mentioned above, the best method is to get it to idle smoothly and an appropriate rpm and afr when warm. That tune is the base tune to make adjustment to the enrichments. An item that took me a while to figure out is the base idle timing. Your engine has an idle timing number that will work. Without knowing anything about your motor, I recommend picking a number such as 20. Set all of the timing in the lower left corner from 0-1600 rpms and 0-100 kpa to that number. If you change the idle timing, then change all of those numbers at the same time. Trust me, it will make getting a stable idle tune initially easier. If you're unclear on what I mean thensay so and I'll attach a screenshot. Also, changing this will give you a good idea of how timing can affect idle rpm, AFR and coolant temps at idle.

It's pretty neat to watch the effect as you make the changes.

Lastly, if you go without an IAC it is possible to make the motor start both hot and cold. It's done via the timing table. It's what's done on most bikes and most anytime that an MS1 is used that can't accommodate an IAC. A gentleman by the name of Felix Hamilton set me up with how to do this on my son's turbo'd 2.8 Nissan with an MS1. He's well known on the web, extremely knowledgeable and willing to help.

Good luck - Jim
 

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Discussion Starter #36
Update
I turned off Ego control and saw the exact same symptom of run for a short period of time and then die and not restart for hours. I tried different firmware with the same results. I am leaning towards component failure on the ECU. I spend a great deal of my days working on PLC's and the symptom would be similar to an output card issue.

I hope in my explanations I have been able to explain how well the engine runs at idle, revving in neutral and short blasts in the driveway until the failure starts happening. At that point the engine won't idle, won't rev cleanly and then dies and does not restart for hours and then with no changes runs fine again. This happens at coolant temps from 120f to 180f and if the engine is only idling or trying to move.
I have drove the car previously to a couple of car shows and to work a couple of times and while the tune has room for improvements and I have made some changes thanks to some input form here and other places nothing has had the desired effect of correcting the problem. I am sending the unit back for inspection.

I have a Microsquirt system on another turbo car and it has been in operation for 4 years or so and I was able to get familiar with the basic system on it.
thanxs
 

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The engine needs air, fuel and spark to run. When it won’t restart, which is it not getting? If fuel, then why not? Pressure ok? Can you cycle the injectors when it refuses to start? Does it deliver spark?
 

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Get a can of “Air Duster” or similar keyboard cleaner. Get your engine running and make it die like you say. Now spray the ECU in such a manner that the liquid comes out and quick cools the ECU. Does it restart now?
If not, repeat the sequence and douse the ignition coil.
Or, release one connector at a time from the ECU and carefully inspect the terminals snd look for signs of overheating.
That’s all I got.
 
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