Yellow Bullet Forums banner
1 - 20 of 25 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
355 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
We've been on the fat side tuneup wise for awhile and decided to lean her out a bit. Made a pass and the O2 was 9.4-9.7 during the run. Get back to the trailer to set fuel pressure lower. hook up the flow tool with a .80 jet, crack it open and both gauges (one on regulator and the one on the flow tool) read 3psi :confused: Im thinking WTF I just made a pass and the 02 says we are fat. I then pulled a few plugs and they all are showing fat. I put on spare (new) gauge and it reads 3 psi also. When I last set this up I set it at 6.5 psi. I go back up without touching anything and get the same readings 9.4-9.7 on the 02. I then lowered the pressure down to 2psi and go make a pass. The 02 then reads 9.9-10.3 a step in the right direction picking up .05 and 2 mph. I then made a non nitrous pass (Enderle Birdcatcher Injected on Alky with Gas enrichment) and the 02 reads 11.8-12.2 right where I want it and so now I know the 02 doesnt need recalibrated.

What would cause these three gauges to read low like that when infact it's not??

FWIW
555 BBC Inj Alky Gas Enrichment
Dart 360
31n-28f Jets
125 Main
38Nozzles
20 High Speed open at 65psi.
BG 400 pump with Aeromotive 2 port Regulator.

Sorry for the long post
..............................Tyster
 

·
The nitrous guy
Joined
·
7,189 Posts
What makes you think it is not that low. Weather, or lack of decent air can drastically change pressure settings. If the A/F says rich and the plugs are black, it's rich. Put some air to it...bigger nitrous jets, or take fuel jet out. I personally don't run any pressures under about 4.5.

Monte
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,216 Posts
We've been on the fat side tuneup wise for awhile and decided to lean her out a bit. Made a pass and the O2 was 9.4-9.7 during the run. Get back to the trailer to set fuel pressure lower. hook up the flow tool with a .80 jet, crack it open and both gauges (one on regulator and the one on the flow tool) read 3psi :confused: Im thinking WTF I just made a pass and the 02 says we are fat. I then pulled a few plugs and they all are showing fat. I put on spare (new) gauge and it reads 3 psi also. When I last set this up I set it at 6.5 psi. I go back up without touching anything and get the same readings 9.4-9.7 on the 02. I then lowered the pressure down to 2psi and go make a pass. The 02 then reads 9.9-10.3 a step in the right direction picking up .05 and 2 mph. I then made a non nitrous pass (Enderle Birdcatcher Injected on Alky with Gas enrichment) and the 02 reads 11.8-12.2 right where I want it and so now I know the 02 doesnt need recalibrated.

What would cause these three gauges to read low like that when infact it's not??

FWIW
555 BBC Inj Alky Gas Enrichment
Dart 360
31n-28f Jets
125 Main
38Nozzles
20 High Speed open at 65psi.
BG 400 pump with Aeromotive 2 port Regulator.

Sorry for the long post
..............................Tyster
Ty ,
An engine that runs on alky , gas , air and nitrous is a pretty confuzed piece to start with . Now flare the motor through the converter when the nitrous system is activated and you get more pump speed just as room in the plenum is becoming occupied by other media. As you can see , it really doesnt need much if any gas as a supliment . Problem is that mixture is too cold and wet to light . It needs the gas to get the party started.
I'm sure by now you can see what needs to be added and what needs to be trimmed back.......16060 is the part number I think..;)
Chazoom...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,403 Posts
Enderle Birdcatcher Injected on Alky with Gas enrichment) and the 02 reads 11.8-12.2 right where I want it and so now I know the 02 doesnt need recalibrated.

FWIW
555 BBC Inj Alky Gas Enrichment
Dart 360
125 Main
38Nozzles
20 High Speed open at 65psi.
..............................Tyster
Something doesn't seem right.
Are you running 8 #38 nozzles on a N/A motor?
If so even with a 125 main @ that pressure thats a ton of fuel
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,216 Posts
Are we even sure the system is flowing the proper amount of nitrous here ???? ;) SJ
Steve ,
While anything is possible , I have read enough of what Tyster writes over on DRR that he know's his way around enough to check his filters (if any) and the condition of the plungers . He speaks of running this system over a period of time and know's of the state of tune and was looking to sharpen it up a bit .
Having run alky injected motors myself in bracket cars for years I went through the dilema of making it work with nitrous and a fuel suplement . I have guys who I built cars for that in order to get into our local Quick show would spray a .050 (or two) into either the scoop , manifold spacer or hat and p/u between a tenth and fifteen hundreths with nothing else done . I myself have gone 6.75 @ over 200 with a conventional headded alky injected T/D car . I used a "fuel stripper" (alky) in conjunction with each kit's activation that removed aprox 15 psi from the parent system . It's the only way to dry up the cylinder enough to achive usuable combustion . Still there is a point around 350 hp where the whole thing just fails to make any additional power beyond the point of saturation , even with two 350 hp systems.
So it really would come as no suprize to me that Ty could even go as far as forgetting to turn the (electric) pump on , make a pass , and hurt nothing with the set-up he now has. It's usually at this point that many just stall where they are at , use alky where it really shines : blown , or convert back to gasoline if they really want to run nitrous.
ChaZoom...........
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
355 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
What makes you think it is not that low. Weather, or lack of decent air can drastically change pressure settings. If the A/F says rich and the plugs are black, it's rich. Put some air to it...bigger nitrous jets, or take fuel jet out. I personally don't run any pressures under about 4.5.

Monte

When I set it up I used 6.5psi and I checked it a couple weeks ago and it was the same. (I've used this tuneup for several years and always knew it was fat) The ET. or MPH was still the same. I have some 33's that I wanted to put in but we can only run 4.50 (Jegs Super Quick 32 Series) and we were in with a 4.54 so I left it alone.


Ty ,
An engine that runs on alky , gas , air and nitrous is a pretty confuzed piece to start with . Now flare the motor through the converter when the nitrous system is activated and you get more pump speed just as room in the plenum is becoming occupied by other media. As you can see , it really doesnt need much if any gas as a supliment . Problem is that mixture is too cold and wet to light . It needs the gas to get the party started.
I'm sure by now you can see what needs to be added and what needs to be trimmed back.......16060 is the part number I think..:wink:
Chazoom...

Chaz, your right, there is a lot of fuel in that plenum. It's alot more fun adding more N2O jet. The Columbus sportsNationals are coming up :cool:


Uncle Paul we've been 36-41 on the Nozzles and from 85-135 on the Jettting and she's right where it seems to be happy at, I do appreciate the input though.

Are we even sure the system is flowing the proper amount of nitrous here ???? ;) SJ
__________________
Steve Johnson
www.Induction-Solutions.com


No, but my car would look awesome with the Steve Johnson's Induction Solutions Superman Logo on the side ;)


Who's got some good "used" jets they want to get rid of? 25's 34's what ya got?

Thanks all
.................................Tyster
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,216 Posts
Ty ,
An engine that runs on alky , gas , air and nitrous is a pretty confuzed piece to start with . Now flare the motor through the converter when the nitrous system is activated and you get more pump speed just as room in the plenum is becoming occupied by other media. As you can see , it really doesnt need much if any gas as a supliment . Problem is that mixture is too cold and wet to light . It needs the gas to get the party started.
I'm sure by now you can see what needs to be added and what needs to be trimmed back.......16060 is the part number I think..:wink:
Chazoom...

Chaz, your right, there is a lot of fuel in that plenum. It's alot more fun adding more N2O jet. The Columbus sportsNationals are coming up :cool:
Fun indeed ! Problem is the bigger nitrous jet will take up more room in the plenum , spin the motor faster , pump more fuel ...err...nevermind , it took me about two years to get a grip on it ....enjoy....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,403 Posts
What pump and what does it flow?

Also... Your High Speed seems awfully small???

EDB
Eric, I am with you thats why I asked the question about nozzles and main pill. Unless my calculations are way off to get a by-pass to kick in @ 65 psi when using #38 nozzles and a .125 main pill you need a pump that will flow 9 GPM @ 8000RPM! That would make your A/F ratio on a good day about 3.79 (way fat) and thats if you motor have 100% VE. If it is working for him well ok but I think some info is missing or not correct.
So if someone can help me understand. He states he has an O2 meter, do they not display a/f ratio. A/F for methanol should be around 5, anything above that would be lean.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
355 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Eric, I am with you thats why I asked the question about nozzles and main pill. Unless my calculations are way off to get a by-pass to kick in @ 65 psi when using #38 nozzles and a .125 main pill you need a pump that will flow 9 GPM @ 8000RPM! That would make your A/F ratio on a good day about 3.79 (way fat) and thats if you motor have 100% VE. If it is working for him well ok but I think some info is missing or not correct.
So if someone can help me understand. He states he has an O2 meter, do they not display a/f ratio. A/F for methanol should be around 5, anything above that would be lean.
Guys we've been running Injection since the late 80's and we've got a pretty good hold on tuning one up. We started with a hilliborn stack and switched to this Hat in 95. With that said, the A/F ratio was 11.88 to 12.25 on saturday using the gas scale as was stated earlier, on the Alky scale it was 5.17-5.33 (yes a TAD on the lean side but again that what she likes on the motor. It only gains 7 degrees of temp on a pass. It's an 80A pump and no it doesnt flow 9GPM...LOL

Eric I've read several of you injection post on several different boards and I know you know your way around it, so I know that you know not evey combo is the same ;) The reason for such a small High Speed pill is with dozens of test passes that setup worked best. ET wise it's worth less than .02 and only1.5 mph. in the 1/8th. We've tried all the way up to an 60 pill and as low as 25psi on the HS.

Our old 572 liked a 105 main 39 Nozzles 65HS pill opening at 30psi.

Our Old 540 Liked 110 main 36 Nozzles and it could've cared less if the HS was open or shut.

Once again guys trust me the "On Motor" tune is dead nuts and I'm not a newbie just feeding enough info to get some majical answer that'll make me feel better. I was ust wondering about my Nitrous fuel pressures reading low and wondering if anyone has had a similar situation.

McLovin you have a pm coming.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,216 Posts
I also would have to say Ty's n/a tune up is right there . I used an 80A-1 pump with .039 nozzles in 1,3,7,4,6,8 . 2 had a .038 and 5 had a .040 . When the pump was brand new I used a .115 main and as it wore a .1125 . I saw no need to use a hi-speed as it crossed the line @ 1200+ degrees . I did however use a .050 bleed while on the two step to put some heat in motor and keep the plugs clean . Leaving it open till just past converter speed was worth a couple hundreths on a good track and let the egt's climb to 550* at launch instead of 400* which held the eight mile temps up in the 800* degree mark instead of the low 700's . If you look at the graph from a blown alky motor , they leave the line @ 900 and anything much past 1050 on the other end and your looking for trouble . Kind of goes to show that alky likes boost and heat instead of cold . Nitrous anyone......;)
The other two bleeds on this log were used for each stage on nitrous . It did clean things up a bit , but I have been back on gas since 2001 , just cant bare to get rid of my alky stuff ......
Chazoom....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,403 Posts
First I am not on here to try an piss anyone off or tell them they don’t know what they are doing I am only asking questions to learn and when I see something that doesn’t look right I ask.

Tyster in your first post you stated “I then made a non nitrous pass (Enderle Birdcatcher Injected on Alky with Gas enrichment) and the 02 reads 11.8-12.2 right where I want it and so now I know the 02 doesnt need recalibrated.” So being you are running alky I ask about the 11.8 – 12.2 numbers which really should be around 5 for alky (see how my confusion started?).

I also have a 556 BBC w/ Dart 360 head injected methanol with a nitrous shot. We run a Kinsler throttle body and thus far the best tune up seems to be 35.8 nozzles w/ 0.110 main pill. Anything fatter the EGT won’t go over 1000 degs F. I use Spuds from Fuel Injections Enterprises excel spread sheet to calculate main pill and high speed by pass set up. When I see bigger nozzles, a bigger main, a high speed by-pass and you still have more fuel pressure I question it.

Just so you see where I am coming from below is the data sheet I use. I plugged in the specs from a Enderle 80 A-1 pump which will flow 7GPM @ 4000 pump rpm. If that calculation is correct the high speed never kicks in.
 
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Top