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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Will changing the spacing on the rear ladder bar holes affect anything on the chassis setup? Right now the top hole is 1" BELOW the top of the axle tube, and 7-1/8" on center. The new bars I'm looking at buying all seem to have the upper hole about 1-1/2" ABOVE the top of the axle tube and about 8" on center. What affect, if any, will this change have? Will I have to change which hole I'm using in the front mount?

Can't see it making a difference but....???

Craig
 

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I think it will reduce the pull on the bar raising it up. RM
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks RM, I know spacing the bolts farther apart will reduce the load (stress) on the rear rod eyes. I'm just concerned if it will have any effect on the chassis tune.
 

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It's a leverage change.
Depending on track hook, may require some shock adjustment.
 

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I just built a set of Brackets that will allow me to raise or lower the ladder bar 1" in the rear. Car hasnt gotten to the track yet so it will take awhile to baseline the car then see if it makes any difference..
 

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It's a leverage change.
Depending on track hook, may require some shock adjustment.


Duffy and I have been discussing this for years and neither of us has ever tested it so it is still just speculation, but both of us kind of think that moving the spread or moving it up or down even an inch or two would not make a big change in the way the car worked.
 

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I know it makes a difference on a 4 link so if you consider a ladder bar as a 4 link it seems like it has to effect it. RM
 

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I know it makes a difference on a 4 link so if you consider a ladder bar as a 4 link it seems like it has to effect it. RM
the 4 link has 4 pivot points though the ladder has only one. Regardless of where it is bolted up in the back it still only piots in the front..

I know of an S-10 that worked really well in the Ten second range..

The rear bracket were welded on upside down!!

I could not believe it worked
 

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Plot the intersect points of the ladder bar as you would a 4 link. The spread changes the set up is my point. I know guys who intentionally set the 4 link bars in different holes side to side. They claim it reduces torque roll. I wouldn't drive a car like that. RM
 

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Plot the intersect points of the ladder bar as you would a 4 link. The spread changes the set up is my point. I know guys who intentionally set the 4 link bars in different holes side to side. They claim it reduces torque roll. I wouldn't drive a car like that. RM
The intersection point is the front pivot point of the ladder bar regardless of where the rear is mounted..

If you use the old "Percentage of Rise" method it uses the front intersection point.

Changing the spread on a the rear of a 4-link changes the leverage and speed of the bars because there a two independent bars. the dynamic changes from the lower pushing and the upper bars pulling to the rearend housing pushing through the upper and lower bars..

a ladder bar car drives the front mount up and forward and transitions to mostly forward
 

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I disagree. I've just seen too many homemade kits that were this way and didn't work well. RM
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I understand the leverage change as Horndog mentioned, what I don't understand is how it affects the car as a whole. Also by moving the ladder bar up in the rear now the angle of the bottom bar is going to be steeper pointed down toward the front than it is now if I use the same mount point in the front. I don't know what difference that makes. The IC is still in the same location right?? I'm probably making this way more difficult than it is.

Craig
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
BTW, RM, I was reading in Dave Morgan's book last night on 4-links and one of the things he suggested sometimes was setting one upper bar at a different angle than the other upper bar to help with roll rotation.
 

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Ladder bars don’t care, it’s the front bolt ,it can look like spaghetti and it wont matter.

Four links are a completely different thing, they do make a difference.

All you will ever need to know about them is on Billy's site

http://home.earthlink.net/~whshope/
 

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Ladder bars don’t care, it’s the front bolt ,it can look like spaghetti and it wont matter.

Four links are a completely different thing, they do make a difference.

All you will ever need to know about them is on Billy's site

http://home.earthlink.net/~whshope/
Who's site is that??

ALOT of information there
 

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BTW, RM, I was reading in Dave Morgan's book last night on 4-links and one of the things he suggested sometimes was setting one upper bar at a different angle than the other upper bar to help with roll rotation.
He's a smart guy and I've read some of his stuff so he could be right. All I know is I, by mistake, got the bars off adjusting at the track with alot of help and the car was terrible to drive while slowing down. A wreck looking for a place to happen......LOL. I read where RJ book says you can set the rearend uneven to get the car to launch better. I won't do that either. I'm not a expert but I know in my head based on what I've seen that raising that top bar has to reduce the pull the LB applies to the front pivot much like I think it does on a 4 link. I'm not smart enough to argue about it but I won't do it unless I want to change the way the LB is launching the car. Varied ideas are the blessings and curse of the internet......LOL. RM
 

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ProMods are starting to do all kinds of weird things with the rear suspension..

Cocking the rearend in the chassis (Rear Steer) Moving the bars to unequal settings side to side,

But you better have a real good idea of what you are doing before you try doing it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Does anybody like the Chassis Engineering "Outlaw" ladder bars where you can move the upper and lower bars independently? What I've read thus far most think they're more of a gimmick than a real tuning aid.

Craig
 
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