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Discussion Starter #1

Hi all,

What sets T&D apart from Jesel with regards to fulcrum bearing life? What is different with regards to construction of the bearing and shaft, as well as thrust take up? Curiosity has the best of me- you can read of lots of fulcrum bearing failures and such with Jesel but very few with T&D.

I trashed the fulcrum bearings in my Pro Series Jesel rockers. Locked the #8 intake nearly tight, with #1 intake almost as bad, along with a couple of exhaust rocker bearings having issues as well. Last spring I replaced all the bearings in the rockers after finding the "closed ends" of the bearing race broken during the off season. Had been chasing a miss for the last three race weekends, finally the rocker let it be known during a check of springs- it took 550 pounds on my LSM tester to get the rocker to move with the valve closed..

Just for the record, it's a 15 degree CFE headed SBC spinning no more than 8500 RPM, with valve lift just over .850". 1.7 rocker ratio. Springs are good, no signs of instability with the setup other than the bearing failures.

Thanks!
 

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Butch
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Hi all,

What sets T&D apart from Jesel with regards to fulcrum bearing life? What is different with regards to construction of the bearing and shaft, as well as thrust take up? Curiosity has the best of me- you can read of lots of fulcrum bearing failures and such with Jesel but very few with T&D.

I trashed the fulcrum bearings in my Pro Series Jesel rockers. Locked the #8 intake nearly tight, with #1 intake almost as bad, along with a couple of exhaust rocker bearings having issues as well. Last spring I replaced all the bearings in the rockers after finding the "closed ends" of the bearing race broken during the off season. Had been chasing a miss for the last three race weekends, finally the rocker let it be known during a check of springs- it took 550 pounds on my LSM tester to get the rocker to move with the valve closed..

Just for the record, it's a 15 degree CFE headed SBC spinning no more than 8500 RPM, with valve lift just over .850". 1.7 rocker ratio. Springs are good, no signs of instability with the setup other than the bearing failures.

Thanks!
Have you called Jesel? Any time I have had an issue they have been there to help, yet others don't have as good service from them (??)

As far as the T&D I myself have only used a couple, including one set on an 18 degree engine with no issues. I also know people who swear by T&D and NEVER had an issue

FWIW, I liked the Crane Pro Series and Sportsman shaft mounts and needle less shaft mounts although they don't have these out currently, They seemed like they were a T&D body with their shafts and bushings
 

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I've had problems with some Jesel bearing's in the past also. Replaced the Jesel IKO bearings with American made Torrington's...problem solved, forever.
 

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I've had problems with some Jesel bearing's in the past also. Replaced the Jesel IKO bearings with American made Torrington's...problem solved, forever.
What did it cost to change the bearings? I have a brand new set of Jesel pro series for my big chief's and now this thread has me concerned, did I make a bad decision? :confused:
 

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I have not had this happen "Yet", try to use T&D for the most part. From some of the stuff that I've seen, the rollers and bearing's seem to be better on the T&D.



T-flow
 

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When I was looking for a shaft setup a few years ago it was down to Jesel and T&D. Ended up with T&D cause their bearings are pressure fed and the spring oilers were standard and not an option. They were also the least exspensive of the two. Not saying Jesel's are inferior just the reason why I picked one over the other.
 

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Are you resricting the oil flow to the topend of the engine?
Does the engine have spring coolers, oil spray bars in the valve covers?

I have T&D's and love them. Every engine I run I have used T&D's.
 

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I have ran Jesel for years and never had any bearing failure... I have seen Jesel failure on other engines but upon inspection the engine had valve train control problems... Might wanna look elsewhere before you blame the rocker.
 

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That CFE head requires a .750 offset on the intake and that is why the bearings are sensitive....they are trying to be pried apart.... along with side loading. Its not an oiling issue.... splash will give enough oil for a needle. More oil doesn't mean more reliability. That said I have never had a bearing failure with that head and I've had a dozen sets of that head. When I have seen it happen it is always coupled with other issues.

Use the 1.75 pivot on those heads.
 

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What did it cost to change the bearings?
Whatever the new bearings were is all. I just crossed over the number's at a local bearing house & swaped them out myself.

I basically use Jesel & T&D's stuff about 50/50 these days. I haven't seen or had trouble with a Jesel lately, but definatly have had in the past.
 

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arent the bearings on the t&d pressure fed?
Most t&d s are pressure fed , the sporstman series arent if my memory is correct.
I dont think any of Jesels stuff is pressure fed
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
Have you called Jesel?
Not yet. This week.

I've had problems with some Jesel bearing's in the past also. Replaced the Jesel IKO bearings with American made Torrington's...problem solved, forever.
That's what I did here too. Replaced the IKO's with Torrington/Koyo (Koyo bought out the Torrington line from Timken). Thinking there's a quality or application difference in bearings even though they have the same part number.

Are you resricting the oil flow to the topend of the engine?
Does the engine have spring coolers, oil spray bars in the valve covers?
Yes. .100 diameter in the ends of the block. No spray bars, no oilers.

I have seen Jesel failure on other engines but upon inspection the engine had valve train control problems... Might wanna look elsewhere before you blame the rocker.
Certainly not ruling this out. Everything appears to be ok, but.... The springs test good. One would think if there was a valvetrain issue, it would have shown up in the 125 or so passes this year? Valve lash never changed, springs are always 290 on seat. What else could I look at besides doing the Spintron thing?

That CFE head requires a .750 offset on the intake and that is why the bearings are sensitive....they are trying to be pried apart.... along with side loading. Its not an oiling issue.... splash will give enough oil for a needle. More oil doesn't mean more reliability. That said I have never had a bearing failure with that head and I've had a dozen sets of that head. When I have seen it happen it is always coupled with other issues.

Use the 1.75 pivot on those heads.
Chris, the rockers Jesel spec'd for me are - KPS12165, .750 intake offset, .200 (IIRC) exhaust offset, 1.65 pivot. CHEL70/CHER70 exhaust rockers, C2KL70/C2KR70 intake rockers.

I hear ya on the geometery issue with the offset. It's ugly, and each year I replace the black thrust washers and snap rings.

You mention this head needs a 1.75 pivot- I have 1.65 pivot- My rockers set up very nice on the heads, the sweep on the valve is perfect. I guess I don't know how or where to look to see if the pivot length is wrong. Would the pivot length contribute to this problem?

I am running a double taper .165 wall 7/16 Trend pushrod.

Thanks everyone!
 

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Yeah, the 1.65 is std, I prefer 1.75.... gets you into the valve cover rail but the sweep is better.

Unfortunately, none of that fixes the poor geometry of the pushrod with .750 offset rockers... it is what it is.
 

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You can send your heads to T&D to have some custom rockers built that will get rid of a lot of the offset. They built me a set for a set of the UltraPro 9 degree heads that are awesome.
 
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