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Not new or "unique". I've been running a dual fuel system on my current car for 12 years. 30lb primary injectors and 220lb secondary injectors. In the secondary system I've used race gas (110-116 octane), E85 and even methanol. I first put together a dual ruel system on my 85 Turbo Mustang in 1994.

The most important component to do this right is the right ECU. I prefer Haltech and have been successful using their F3 unit (1994), and on the current car I've used their E11-V2, Platinum Sport and Elite 2500. 2 years ago I added their REM that works with the Elite 2500. Not only will it run the additional 8 injectors, it runs them in sequential mode.
 
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Discussion Starter #8
Not new or "unique". I've been running a dual fuel system on my current car for 12 years. 30lb primary injectors and 220lb secondary injectors. In the secondary system I've used race gas (110-116 octane), E85 and even methanol. I first put together a dual ruel system on my 85 Turbo Mustang in 1994.

The most important component to do this right is the right ECU. I prefer Haltech and have been successful using their F3 unit (1994), and on the current car I've used their E11-V2, Platinum Sport and Elite 2500. 2 years ago I added their REM that works with the Elite 2500. Not only will it run the additional 8 injectors, it runs them in sequential mode.
Till only recently I had no idea such a system existed. Do you have your system programmed to switch fuel at a certain PSI? Would you happen to have a pic of your intake manifold with your injector setup? Thanks
 

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Before I got the REM (Race Expansion Module) the other ECU software used manifold PSI to trigger turning on the large injectors. The REM uses the primary injector duty cycle to turn on the large injectors and the secondary injector duty cycle to turn them off. Basically when the primary duty cycle hits the programmed number (say 85%) the secondary injectors turn on and when the duty cycle drops below 10% it turns them off. With both methods it happens around 4lbs boost while I'm still on the transbrake.

Here are some pictures of both intake manifolds I've used on the current car. The first one shows an Edelbrock RPM II intake that I first used. The second one is a modified TFS R-box. I don't have a picture of that intake off the car. The inlet lines (10AN) to the fuel rail were designed to run with Methanol if wanted. The are very large to help stabilize the fuel flow because the batch injection opened all injectors at once so the resultant pressure pluse upset the flow thru the fuel rail. With the REM using sequential injection, I couild reduce those in size to 8AN with no problems. I've gone away from using race gas and only use E85 right now. I've used Methanol in the past and am thinking of doing some more experimenting with it again just for fun.

The primary system is stock OEM with 30lb injectors. There is one tune for the car with no tune changes at the track needed. It's nice to be able to cruise on the street with 93 octane, get 18 mpg but have 100% power available with no turning changes. The car has gone 8.22 at 168 mph with this setup.

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Discussion Starter #11
Before I got the REM (Race Expansion Module) the other ECU software used manifold PSI to trigger turning on the large injectors. The REM uses the primary injector duty cycle to turn on the large injectors and the secondary injector duty cycle to turn them off. Basically when the primary duty cycle hits the programmed number (say 85%) the secondary injectors turn on and when the duty cycle drops below 10% it turns them off. With both methods it happens around 4lbs boost while I'm still on the transbrake.

Here are some pictures of both intake manifolds I've used on the current car. The first one shows an Edelbrock RPM II intake that I first used. The second one is a modified TFS R-box. I don't have a picture of that intake off the car. The inlet lines (10AN) to the fuel rail were designed to run with Methanol if wanted. The are very large to help stabilize the fuel flow because the batch injection opened all injectors at once so the resultant pressure pluse upset the flow thru the fuel rail. With the REM using sequential injection, I couild reduce those in size to 8AN with no problems. I've gone away from using race gas and only use E85 right now. I've used Methanol in the past and am thinking of doing some more experimenting with it again just for fun.

The primary system is stock OEM with 30lb injectors. There is one tune for the car with no tune changes at the track needed. It's nice to be able to cruise on the street with 93 octane, get 18 mpg but have 100% power available with no turning changes. The car has gone 8.22 at 168 mph with this setup.
So if I'm understanding, you're only running E85 but the secondary injectors kick in with extra E85 only when needed? Probably makes the tuning less complex.

In order to run sequential fuel injection did you need to run a cam sensor? Or are you just using a crank trigger?
 

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So if I'm understanding, you're only running E85 but the secondary injectors kick in with extra E85 only when needed? Probably makes the tuning less complex.

In order to run sequential fuel injection did you need to run a cam sensor? Or are you just using a crank trigger?

proper sequential fuel injection cannot be achieved without a cam trigger. ( or some sort of cylinder ID reference )
 

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So if I'm understanding, you're only running E85 but the secondary injectors kick in with extra E85 only when needed? Probably makes the tuning less complex.

In order to run sequential fuel injection did you need to run a cam sensor? Or are you just using a crank trigger?
I have 2 tanks, the secondary is a 5 gal tank in the trunk. I typically run 93 octane in the primary system and E85 in the secondary system. Sometimes if I'm just "traveling" and am going to run thru at least one full tank of gas I'll use 87 since it's cheaper and the car doesn't need 93 unless it's going under higher boost. Once it's been installed and tuned, it's not really complicated.

Yes, as mentioned I have the necessary cam position sensor.
 
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Not new or "unique". I've been running a dual fuel system on my current car for 12 years. 30lb primary injectors and 220lb secondary injectors. In the secondary system I've used race gas (110-116 octane), E85 and even methanol. I first put together a dual ruel system on my 85 Turbo Mustang in 1994.

The most important component to do this right is the right ECU. I prefer Haltech and have been successful using their F3 unit (1994), and on the current car I've used their E11-V2, Platinum Sport and Elite 2500. 2 years ago I added their REM that works with the Elite 2500. Not only will it run the additional 8 injectors, it runs them in sequential mode.
Yeah this is really old tech. Nelson just seems to put a big price tag on stuff more than engineer anything
 

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You could do this super easily on like lets say a gen 4 ls car. Stock ecu controls stock injectors. Have second pump come online at boost with a hobbs or whatever you like really. Have that pump in a fuel cell. Run a terminator x or something similar, split the crank and cam signals. Last but not least, get a metal intake manifold from holley, and add secondary injector ports.

Another option is to just setup a methanol injection system basically. Pro Meth for example has everything you'd need to do it right. Methanol is slightly oxygenated so it will make more power than alcohol. Set the nozzles to be port injected instead of just after the tb or before the tb, that way you ensure each cylinder gets a correct amount of fuel flow.



Realistically the secondary set of injectors should only come on under high load with positive manifold pressure. So, you don't need individual port control or high fidelity of the injection rate. Because those conditions of high load and positive manifold pressure realistically are going to be when you're WOT/racing.

50 grand for that kit would be an absolute joke (edit I guess that's for the engine and turbos and fuel setup, not just the fuel system... 50grand for a fuel system would be a joke, 50 grand for all the parts seems like NRE pricing). Plenty of gen V direct injection boosted cars run lots of meth to supplement the factory system. A lot of ecu's today can set that up and control it safely. And there are boost controllers that can do it too. As well as various safety measures to kick the car out of boost or pull timing if the secondary system has too high of pressure (clog) or a line breaks loose (too low pressure+too much flow). AEM makes a neat gauge that will even data log the pressure and flow of a meth system, and let you set various parameters for a fail safe signal to be turned on.
 

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Till only recently I had no idea such a system existed. Do you have your system programmed to switch fuel at a certain PSI? Would you happen to have a pic of your intake manifold with your injector setup? Thanks
Billion ways to set this up with hobs switch on the pump or depending on boost controller, or adding a second engine controller just for the injectors... As long as you get the fuel safely into the runners that's what matters...
 

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You could do this super easily on like lets say a gen 4 ls car. Stock ecu controls stock injectors. Have second pump come online at boost with a hobbs or whatever you like really. Have that pump in a fuel cell. Run a terminator x or something similar, split the crank and cam signals. Last but not least, get a metal intake manifold from holley, and add secondary injector ports.
It's NOT that easy or simple if you want the secondary fuel injectors to provide a large percentage of the fuel. On my car the primary injectors are 30lb/hr, the secondary 220lb/hr and the injectors run and the same pulse width so approximately 88% of the fuel comes from the secondary system after that system kicks in.

Trust me, I've been running a dual fuel system for over 25 years. The transition from primary to both systems together is tough to do smoothly. Haltech allows for several "adjustments" necessary to make the transition acceptable otherwise the engine bogs big time. This includes mementary adding extra fuel during the transition similar to an accelerator pump.
 

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It's NOT that easy or simple if you want the secondary fuel injectors to provide a large percentage of the fuel. On my car the primary injectors are 30lb/hr, the secondary 220lb/hr and the injectors run and the same pulse width so approximately 88% of the fuel comes from the secondary system after that system kicks in.

Trust me, I've been running a dual fuel system for over 25 years. The transition from primary to both systems together is tough to do smoothly. Haltech allows for several "adjustments" necessary to make the transition acceptable otherwise the engine bogs big time. This includes mementary adding extra fuel during the transition similar to an accelerator pump.
The hardware is that easy. You can do that EXACTLY with a terminator. I spoke to someone who did EXACTLY that not that long ago.

Making that transient fueling stage work is tuning related. I didn't say the tune was easy.

Your conclusion is irrelevant to my point; this has been done before. And it can be done with tons of parts on the aftermarket. If you somehow feel hurt or whatever it is towards your accomplishments, I frankly don't care. My point still stands, and you seem to need to start some fruitless moronic argument that has no meaning to anyone but yourself.
 

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I don’t think it was a moronic as you put it. He/Topfun was merely highlighting the difficulty of a smooth transition when bringing in larger secondary injectors. Which could of easily been overlooked not considered.
 
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