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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
So I have been reading a lot about fuel for non-intercooled turbo setups and have seen very little about this particular topic except one thread where there seemed to be mixed opinions from 11 years ago.
To start with Methanol is NOT an option. Wish it was but it's not.

C16 vs e85 seems to be a debate for non-intercooled turbo as the it's are high.

How about c16 and ethanol home blended e85 with the blend coming from a Barrel of 100% ethanol and the gas coming from c16???? Or higher octane unleaded race fuel like 104 if the lead really does in fact do bad things with the Ethanol.....I've read Australian guys have blended c16 and ethanol.
That would in theory seem to be a best of both worlds scenario as it should increase the octane of the fuel while still offering the cooling effects of the alcohol and the price point would still be reasonable.
Thinking about this for a moderate boost (15-20 psi ) big block. Aluminum heads but 12.5:1 static.
Just spit balling.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I didn't know they made c85! Not one single google or multi-forum search has ever brought that up. I'll have to check it out.
 

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I have seen some c16 cut e85 mixes run before. Seemed to work good but car was intercooled anyway.
I would think c16 should be fine at moderate boost levels as is with what you describe. Also interesting would be ethanol methanol mix. 15 or so percent methanol. Maybe touch more. Heard of that being done too
 

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I'm not understanding what you are trying to do with the race fuel. Why not e85? Yes your cylinder pressures are high and yes you will be flirtin with disaster from both detonation resistance and high IAT's. You can use an overly large turbo to try to keep the IAT's down. But that brings other issues spool wise.
You just have so many things working against you, and then mixing fuels and making sure you have that mixture correct every time....I wouldn't. My sbc on meth wasn't very forgiving when it came to the smallest tuning errors at 12.6:1. Even at "low boost" like you mention. This combo sounds like will be so finicky it just won't be fun to own to me.
There are reasons why non intercooled methanol and intercooled e85 are popular combos. And there are reasons most shy away from cr's over 12:1 unless there is a really big reason to go higher.
And I am the LAST guy to rain on anyone's out of the box thinking.
 

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So I have been reading a lot about fuel for non-intercooled turbo setups and have seen very little about this particular topic except one thread where there seemed to be mixed opinions from 11 years ago.
To start with Methanol is NOT an option. Wish it was but it's not.

C16 vs e85 seems to be a debate for non-intercooled turbo as the it's are high.

How about c16 and ethanol home blended e85 with the blend coming from a Barrel of 100% ethanol and the gas coming from c16???? Or higher octane unleaded race fuel like 104 if the lead really does in fact do bad things with the Ethanol.....I've read Australian guys have blended c16 and ethanol.
That would in theory seem to be a best of both worlds scenario as it should increase the octane of the fuel while still offering the cooling effects of the alcohol and the price point would still be reasonable.
Thinking about this for a moderate boost (15-20 psi ) big block. Aluminum heads but 12.5:1 static.
Just spit balling.
I tried a bunch of different mixes about 10 years ago now[pump gas/e85/vp c12/14/16/sunoco118/methanol all were tried], methanol with c16 worked best and was pretty stable, you need to be careful as some fuels don't stay mixed and very quickly separate leaving the risk of running on the unmixed fuel very likely, it gets ugly quick when that happens cheers Richie
 

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With all of the available fuels out there it really doesn't makes sense to bother doing this. One Ethanol R is enough for whatever you want to do. I prefer it over c16 any day. Now, if you were talking about blending in some Nitro, then we're talking! Besides that, pick your flavor and go! I'm also assuming your fuel system isn't up to snuff for methanol which would be better than Ethanol. So again, pick a flavor, run with it!
 

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With all of the available fuels out there it really doesn't makes sense to bother doing this. One Ethanol R is enough for whatever you want to do. I prefer it over c16 any day. Now, if you were talking about blending in some Nitro, then we're talking! Besides that, pick your flavor and go! I'm also assuming your fuel system isn't up to snuff for methanol which would be better than Ethanol. So again, pick a flavor, run with it!
12.5:1 efi non intercooled, E85 will do 15-20 psi?
 

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12.5:1 efi non intercooled, E85 will do 15-20 psi?
I run an intercooled 9.5:1 turbo engine and it's fine with the same timing I ran with C16. With that said, I wouldn't run a 12.5:1 engine non-intercooled with E85. You can probably retard the timing enough to protect it but it wouldn't be very efficient on making power so that would be a crutch. Too little compression for a force induction engine is a lot safer and easier to tune than one with too much compression.
 

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I've successfully used a C16 type mix with 10/90 water/meth injection into the compressors, old iron head engine,20psi,non intercooled, only around a 1000hp though.
 

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I run an intercooled 9.5:1 turbo engine and it's fine with the same timing I ran with C16. With that said, I wouldn't run a 12.5:1 engine non-intercooled with E85. You can probably retard the timing enough to protect it but it wouldn't be very efficient on making power so that would be a crutch. Too little compression for a force induction engine is a lot safer and easier to tune than one with too much compression.
How much timing is pulled from max power NA?
 

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How much timing is pulled from max power NA?
I'm not sure I understand your question. In my application at "0" boost I have around 36deg timing and at 20lbs boost it's around 24deg.
 

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I'm not sure I understand your question. In my application at "0" boost I have around 36deg timing and at 20lbs boost it's around 24deg.
You just answered it. My motor made max power NA at 35-36 degrees. Yours does too? That is pretty high for a sbf. I ended up right around 24-25 degrees myself at 16-17lbs non intercooled blow thru e85.
 

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You just answered it. My motor made max power NA at 35-36 degrees. Yours does too? That is pretty high for a sbf. I ended up right around 24-25 degrees myself at 16-17lbs non intercooled blow thru e85.
I don't know about best timing for max power but one of the strategies to help get turbos spooling is to keep the timing advanced and that setting works well for my combo.
 

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I don't know about best timing for max power but one of the strategies to help get turbos spooling is to keep the timing advanced and that setting works well for my combo.
Gotcha that makes sense. Most sbf are usually 30-33 degrees NA, so 24 degrees is pretty good for E85. I am going efi/intercooled/e85 this year.
 
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