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Discussion Starter #1
This is about the "Red Flag Gun Confiscation" laws. And basically, only about those confiscations. I'm sure this thread will take off in other different directions, but I'd like to make it clear this is my very narrow initial purpose.


I am absolutely sure that there is no legitimate reason for a legal warrant to be issued for any law enforcement officers to come knock on my door to seize any and all firearms from my home. And right now, my state does not even have any of these laws on the books. But I am also sure it is possible for there to be illegitimate reasons for such a warrant to be issued, if my state, or a national law were put into effect. Maybe a mistake in name, address, mistaken identity, bogus no-fly list, somebody with a bone to pick, etc.



So here is the thing. 5:00AM a group of police officers show up with a warrant, signed by a judge, to take my firearms. Do I simply comply? Do I resist and put not only my own life, but possibly the lives of my family at risk? What would be the best possible outcome, from my resistance? I go to jail and they take everything anyway? I hurt or kill a law enforcement officer?



I know many will bow up and state that they'll have to take those guns from their cold dead hands, but have you really thought this all the way through? And if like me, you took an oath to preserve, protect, and defend The Constitution, do you turn your back on that oath because "reality" got in the way? I am not thinking in terms of a much wider conflict, where black and white is much easier to see. And for those places that now have these laws (blatantly unconstitutional, I might add) in place, those confiscations are taking place right now, and it isn't just a theoretical question there. Take care. Tom Worthington
 

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our dept just had this discussion ,
and 100 % , including the sheriff, stated they will never follow
a order that violates the constitution.
also, everyone agreed, any order (law?) would come from idiots like
that retard aoc, or the like.
and would NOT be in the best interest of the US public.
 

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I don't know about you guys....but....

My objective in life isn't to die for anyone else but me, and my family.
I served the country in the Military and did my duty. Beyond that, I'm done.

With that being said, no one will take my freedom, because I will EXPAT
before that happens. No circle jerking here to guys coming to my door and fighting
and leaving in a body bag. That's a no win situation, for those that missed WACO and
Ruby Ridge. The Govt will even assassinate unarmed mothers holding babies.

You don't "Fight" on your heels with the wolves at your door with badges and snipers.
Those of you whom think all LE will just up and leave, don't know the reality they live in.
 

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Our state has those laws, and they are more than happy to use them...I think they are just itching at the thought of breaking down our doors to take our guns......I am pretty sure the only due process we get is the moment they kick in the door...Our State police have no trouble shooting people in the back that are unarmed...like the prisoners who escaped an upsate prison...


https://fox59.com/2015/06/08/escape...r-leaving-behind-note-saying-have-a-nice-day/



They also have no problem holding an entire family hostage at gun point when the man of house is on the run...


https://www.vosizneias.com/5155/2006/09/05/new-york-biggest-manhunt-in-ny-state/


There are more cases of police violating peoples rights here than I think almost anywhere else. Its constantly in the news. The list goes on and on....They feel its their right to trample us....

https://www.wgrz.com/article/news/c...ation/71-514e7ca9-abe0-41da-950e-287beca25282


https://spectrumlocalnews.com/nys/buffalo/news/2015/08/28/krug-in-court


https://buffalochronicle.com/2017/0...falo-police-sues-for-civil-rights-violations/
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Our state has those laws, and they are more than happy to use them...I think they are just itching at the thought of breaking down our doors to take our guns......I am pretty sure the only due process we get is the moment they kick in the door...Our State police have no trouble shooting people in the back that are unarmed...like the prisoners who escaped an upstate prison...


https://fox59.com/2015/06/08/escape...r-leaving-behind-note-saying-have-a-nice-day/

(snip)

You didn't really say, but I am assuming you would not resist if these police officers knock on your door with a warrant in hand? Take care. Tom Worthington
 

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Discussion Starter #7
No one should be denied rights or lose property without due process.

And the NRA is backing this ridiculous garbage

.

I am not willing to throw the baby (the NRA) out with the bath water (support for these unconstitutional confiscations). However, I too was extremely disappointed with my NRA for going in this direction. In fact, it still stuns me.



If police officers with warrant in hand show up at your doorstep, are you going to comply, Jbone? Take care. Tom Worthington
 

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With regards to the NRA.....I support them because they, in most cases, help us. Without them, and other organizations like them, we would be totally screwed and we know it. I have a few complaints about them, but for the most part, they are helping.


As far as answering your question, I am not sure I want to go on record...but its not it their best interest.
 

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First, do I really trust the political backed justice system? Nope but i'm not getting in a gun fight with odds not in my favor. IE a sufficiently armed group of LEO's.
Just like with a "justified" self defense shooting you could still incur thousands of dollars in lawyer expenses proving your innocence.
That being said, I bought a few weapons in the 80's at gun shows prior to all this background check stuff. (which I have no problem with) So the warrant however specific it may be will get a few but I'll be rearmed (for my personal protection) in an hour or two.
 

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I don't know about you guys....but....

My objective in life isn't to die for anyone else but me, and my family.
I served the country in the Military and did my duty. Beyond that, I'm done.

With that being said, no one will take my freedom, because I will EXPAT
before that happens. No circle jerking here to guys coming to my door and fighting
and leaving in a body bag. That's a no win situation, for those that missed WACO and
Ruby Ridge. The Govt will even assassinate unarmed mothers holding babies.

You don't "Fight" on your heels with the wolves at your door with badges and snipers.
Those of you whom think all LE will just up and leave, don't know the reality they live in.
This, going toe to toe with what will most likely escalate very quickly to more firepower than you have is a dumb move. I would love to know what happens if you have nothing in your house if you consent to the warrant. Lost em all, sorry, go to hell.

IMO, and I could be wrong, but those that get issued these things know of them about to happen or in the process. Or, their issues against legit nut jobs.

But, all it takes is one or two cases where it goes bad real quick and the govt will have problems once the easily riled up folks get upset.
 

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I am not willing to throw the baby (the NRA) out with the bath water (support for these unconstitutional confiscations). However, I too was extremely disappointed with my NRA for going in this direction. In fact, it still stuns me.
Then stop funding them! Let them die out and rebuild the organization from the ground up



If police officers with warrant in hand show up at your doorstep, are you going to comply, Jbone? Take care. Tom Worthington
As I stated,

No one should be denied rights or lose property without due process.
So in short, no.
 

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I would love to know what happens if you have nothing in your house if you consent to the warrant. Lost em all, sorry, go to hell.
Would not be absurd to say potential Obstruction of Justice charges
if no police report showing stolen, or receipts showing sold, or in custody of another legal individual.

Not to mention, your house gets utterly destroyed with them looking even harder......
Friend of mine went thru this in IL for ordering Rx drugs for his messed up brother from Canada.
The drug has a microscopic amount of Opiates in it, so they raided his house.

They had a list of what was purchased at the local big box stores (so be advised)
Anything above this, ATF will need to help trace records.
But, all it takes is one or two cases where it goes bad real quick and the govt will have problems once the easily riled up folks get upset.
I do agree with this.....
However, keep in mind the Govt gets to control the narrative in the media.
"Mentally ill man violently resists arrest, gets killed in home"
 

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The harsh reality of this type of thing is that it will be abused.... then people will be spun-up and waiting for the next instance to respond, and people will die as a result. How the general public responds to the flurry of misinformation, agenda-driven propaganda and media slanting will be the actual test. It really depends entirely on the physical geography of where the pushback starts.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I would love to know what happens if you have nothing in your house if you consent to the warrant. Lost em all, sorry, go to hell.

What is wrong with simply saying: "I would prefer to answer any questions with my counsel present"? Take care. Tom Worthington
 

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Here is the editorial that got thinking more about this. It is an opinion about how to handle it.
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2...your-door-with-a-red-flag-confiscation-order/
First comment says it all........

Texheim says: April 11, 2019 at 10:03
Better to fight anther day than fight the people that can legally kill you.


At your door, you have no recourse.
You fight, you will face possible death, and or justify their case of seizure permanently.

You comply for now, you live to fight another day. Tactics......many need to learn them.
 

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What is wrong with simply saying: "I would prefer to answer any questions with my counsel present"? Take care. Tom Worthington
They already have a search warrant so they would be coming in. I am just saying prior to this you had lost all your firearms in a boating accident.

Would you be in double secret probation for losing something that the state wants to illegally take from you?
 

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The danger of “Red Flag” laws is the misuse that is inevitable. Exspouses, and others that just want to fuck with you will use this with big smiles on their faces.
 

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Will it make any difference if the guns in my house aren't mine? 2 of the guns were purchased by my wife. I purchased a few myself. 2 others belong to a LEO. Wife keeps hers in her drawer and I keep mine either in my safe or under my side of the bed. Room is locked when we aren't around. If their intent is to remove firearms I own, will they leave the ones that are clearly not mine?
 
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