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Who is using this W/M setup in the Holley system and how does it compare to a traditional progressive boost based controller?

Looking at the pics on Holley's website the solenoid has a small j-hook at the end of it. Is this to disperse the fluid stream or is this something that is removed?
 

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Who is using this W/M setup in the Holley system and how does it compare to a traditional progressive boost based controller?
I'm not using it, however...
I like how the Holley W/M injection volume can be setup to spray as a percentage of the actual fuel flow (as opposed to duty cycle %).
I also like how Holley controls the output of the solenoid nozzle itself; not the pump motor, like all other kits I've seen (instantaneous & more accurate).


Looking at the pics on Holley's website the solenoid has a small j-hook at the end of it. Is this to disperse the fluid stream or is this something that is removed?
That's an integral part of the "fogging nozzle".
Here's what it looks like separately: http://www.mcmaster.com/#fogging-nozzles/ (scroll down to end - "Fogging Nozzles")
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I'm not using it, however...
I like how the Holley W/M injection volume can be setup to spray as a percentage of the actual fuel flow (as opposed to duty cycle %).
I also like how Holley controls the output of the solenoid nozzle itself; not the pump motor, like all other kits I've seen (instantaneous & more accurate).

That's an integral part of the "fogging nozzle".
Here's what it looks like separately: http://www.mcmaster.com/#fogging-nozzles/ (scroll down to end - "Fogging Nozzles")
I have a 408W SBF with a YSI making 20 lbs of boost ( approx 900HP) and have the opportunity to stay with my snow kit or sell it and use the Holley software. Im in the process of making new blower piping and want to lay the system out correctly. I was thinking of placing the IAT sensor in the pipe before the throttle body, one meth nozzle a few inches prior to the IAT and one nozzle before the supercharger inlet. Not too sure of what size nozzles i should use with the holley sytem if i decide to go that route.
 

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An experienced W/MI user have to answer that question.

Holley EFI Water Methanol Injection System Installation said:
SYSTEM INFORMATION:
This system is designed for use with Holley HP and Dominator EFI systems. It is not a stand-alone system. The components are designed for 100% water and up to a 50/50 percent mixture of water and methanol. Windshield washer fluid is commonly used. Do NOT use more than 50% methanol in the mixture, or damage to components may result.
NOTE: If you use other hardware in the installation of this system, it must be compatible with the fluid you use. Brass, aluminum, steel, natural rubber, and silicone are not suitable for use with a water/methanol mix and should not be used.
NOTE: The solenoids must be driven by an ECU injector driver output. If an extra injector driver channel is not available, a PWM output can be used to trigger Holley PN 554-115. This is a two channel injector driver device that can control two water meth solenoids using two high (+) or low (-) side PWM outputs.
PARTS REQUIRED:
This kit is an installation kit only. A pump and solenoid(s) are required as well. Note that you must use Holley solenoids for proper operation in conjunction with HP and Dominator EFI systems. The system is set up to allow up to two solenoids to be controlled. These parts are offered by Holley in the following PNs:
557-100 – Pump. This is not an “off the shelf agricultural pump”. It is designed for water/methanol injection.
557-103 – Solenoid/Nozzle Assembly (includes bung) 600cc/min – 400 HP engines
557-105 - Solenoid/Nozzle Assembly (includes bung) 900cc/min – 600 HP engines
557-106 - Solenoid/Nozzle Assembly (includes bung) 1000cc/min – 800 HP engines
557-107 – Replacement Filter
2 solenoids – If you are running two solenoids, you need a “T” fitting to go to them. McMaster-Carr PN 5182K434 or 8239K223 can be
utilized.

System Setup - Injection Mode:
Duty Cycle (%) Mode – Injects based on the program’s duty cycle entered. Fuel Flow (%) Mode – This is the advised method of injection. Injects a precise volume of water/methanol mix, which is a percentage of the actual engine fuel flow at that point.
System Setup - Number of Outputs: Definition: Select from 1 or 2 solenoid outputs. Note that an injector driver output is required for this function. If one is not available, a PWM output can be used to drive Holley PN 554-113.
System Setup - Output Mode:
Definition: Selects method that dual nozzles will be sequenced.
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Sequential
– One nozzle will be ramped in as the duty cycle of the other approaches 100%.
· Parallel – Both will be fired at the same time.
System Setup - Manual Enable:
Definition: Enabling this will create a switched input that allows the water/meth system to be completely disabled if desired. If the switched input is turned off, the water/meth system will never activate and the pump will not run. If the switched input is turned on, the water/meth system will activate as programmed.
System Setup - Turn Pump Off:
Definition: Time for pump to turn off after activation. If the “turn pump off after non-use” time is set to 0 seconds, the water/meth pump will run all the time when the engine is running. If the “turn pump off after non-use” time is set to a value above 0 seconds, the pump will turn on when water/meth injection is commanded and turn off after the programmed time. It will then turn back on once water/meth injection is commanded again.
System Setup - Low Reservoir Warning:
Definition: Enabling will create an input to the ECU from a low reservoir warning.
Low System Safety: Definition: Used if low Reservoir warning is enabled.
Low System Safety - Timing Reduction:
Definition: Amount that timing will be retarded if low reservoir warning is enabled.
Low System Safety - Max Boost: Definition: If boost control is employed, amount that boost will be limited to.

http://www.holley.com/types/Water & Methanol Injection Components.asp (Holley Water Methanol Components)
http://www.holley.com/data/Products/Technical/199R10531rev.pdf (Holley EFI Water Methanol Injection System Installation)
 

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900hp on which fuel? We typically size a kit to achieve atleast 20% water/meth to total fuel flow. Depending on if it's intercooled or not or type of fuel etc will depend on true demand.

Yes, install the IAT just ahead of the throttle body. W typically run one or both just ahead of the the IAT but generally because we typically run twin turbo applications and run two solenoids. I've run twin 1000cc without issues. Let me know if you have specific qurstions.
 

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I haven't tried to integrate it yet, but the Holley system is the FJO system. I have the FJO setup on my car and it is a fantastic and versatile system.

I plan on connecting my FJO stuff to the holley to let it control everything.
 

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Bringing this one back around. I left my IAT sensor in the manifold. Honestly it was something I overlooked but aren't you getting a false temperature reading if your injecting your w/m only a few inches in front of your IAT sensor?
 

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Bringing this one back around. I left my IAT sensor in the manifold. Honestly it was something I overlooked but aren't you getting a false temperature reading if your injecting your w/m only a few inches in front of your IAT sensor?
My IAT sensor is in my intake elbow after the throttlebody.

I did finally wire my existing fjo parts into the holley system. I haven't run the car at the track with it and haven't done much other than verify that the system turns on when it is supposed to.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Bringing this one back around. I left my IAT sensor in the manifold. Honestly it was something I overlooked but aren't you getting a false temperature reading if your injecting your w/m only a few inches in front of your IAT sensor?
I have tested the temp sensor in the pipe and the lower intake for a full season in each location. The pipe will provide lower readings on average (35-45*) due to less heat soak. As far as false temp from one spot to another, not sure it matters. Ford put the temp sensor in the lower intake for Fox bodies and in the pipe for SN95's. There were no ill effects from one location to another based on what i seen.
 

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...aren't you getting a false temperature reading if your injecting your w/m only a few inches in front of your IAT sensor?
If you're concerned about water/meth fluid falsifying the air temperature reading, use a taller bung to move the IAT sensor away from direct contact of the fluid mist.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I just switched my meth settings from duty cycle to % of fuel flow. I have it setup at 20% as advised from a few other users and I noticed all the cells are red. Why did they turn red?? I have a single 1000 cc nozzle.
 

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I have tested the temp sensor in the pipe and the lower intake for a full season in each location. The pipe will provide lower readings on average (35-45*) due to less heat soak. As far as false temp from one spot to another, not sure it matters. Ford put the temp sensor in the lower intake for Fox bodies and in the pipe for SN95's. There were no ill effects from one location to another based on what i seen.
Thanks for your input, I forgot to respond to this. I'm going to be hooking my Meth up next week and log the IAT'S with the pre turbo nozzle first and see how it responds.
 

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The guys I've talked to, and have experience with non intercooled setups while using the Holley W/M kits have had great success. Depending upon the power level, 2 and sometimes 3 nozzles are used. For a car making 900HP on gas, I'd use two 1000cc nozzles right after the blower/turbo. Place them directly across from one another. The center of the nozzles would create an imaginary line through the center of the charge pipe. As a side note of tech info, two nozzles can be ran off one driver module. One pump can supply 3 nozzles.

I won't mention names, but I know of a SBF xb110 combo that had 250-300* IA Temps, and that came down to 140-160* with 2 nozzles.
 

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I have red cells at the upper end of the table too, so that means the single nozzle can't flow that much?
 

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I won't mention names, but I know of a SBF xb110 combo that had 250-300* IA Temps, and that came down to 140-160* with 2 nozzles.
Any idea what mix ratio they were using? Also is it true the solenoids aren't 100% methanol compatible?
 

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The guys I've talked to, and have experience with non intercooled setups while using the Holley W/M kits have had great success. Depending upon the power level, 2 and sometimes 3 nozzles are used. For a car making 900HP on gas, I'd use two 1000cc nozzles right after the blower/turbo. Place them directly across from one another. The center of the nozzles would create an imaginary line through the center of the charge pipe. As a side note of tech info, two nozzles can be ran off one driver module. One pump can supply 3 nozzles.

I won't mention names, but I know of a SBF xb110 combo that had 250-300* IA Temps, and that came down to 140-160* with 2 nozzles.
I have two 1000cc nozzles on mine. The guys who were originally behind creating the system had recommended placing the nozzles on opposite sides of the pipe from each other and staggered.
 

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As a side note of tech info, two nozzles can be ran off one driver module. One pump can supply 3 nozzles.
\.

Can I reuse my existing pump when I pick up the Holley solenoids/nozzles? I have a trunk mounted tank with an integrated pump.
 

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I appreciate that, my pump now is 250psi.
 
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