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Well we had a contractor come in and redo our Epoxy flooring in our building. The removed the old Epoxy and ground down the concrete 1/4" and layed down the new stuff.

Well 6 month later the shit is starting to bubble up in different areas and I smacked one with a hammer and it popped like a zit and this brownish oily shit came out of it.

WTF is this crap so I will be able to tell if the contractor is blowing smoke up my ass or not!!!

Did their moisture barrier that was supposedly 3/8" thick not work???
 

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Could be a couple of things. Excessive moisture from below, improperly mixed as well. I do flooring for my self (own Business) not a big fan of epoxy. You also have to have that concrete cleaner then you ever can get it. The grinding sounds like it was sufficient but I can't or didn't see it so use your judgment. Judging bye the time frame i am guessing improper mixing could be ruled out but, I don't know whose product was used. My suggestion is to drill a core hole to see how moisture is coming from below. Is this new or old concrete what PSI? Weather in your area, Water table? More details please.

I prefer the concrete polishing over epoxy.
 

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In on 1 LOL
 

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Man I've applied a shitload of moisture barriers in my time, but I have never seen one that was 3/8 of an inch thick. Sounds more like an underlayment.

How high was the initial moisture reading, that they decided it needed a moisture barrier?

Most of the time bubbles are caused by
Moisture coming through the concrete.
Poor prep
Outgasing from the underlayment.
 

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My guess is that the guy that put the epoxy down was eating m&m's and droped a few on the floor and painted over them. That would explain the brown shit?
 

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Well we had a contractor come in and redo our Epoxy flooring in our building. The removed the old Epoxy and ground down the concrete 1/4" and layed down the new stuff.

Well 6 month later the shit is starting to bubble up in different areas and I smacked one with a hammer and it popped like a zit and this brownish oily shit came out of it.

WTF is this crap so I will be able to tell if the contractor is blowing smoke up my ass or not!!!

Did their moisture barrier that was supposedly 3/8" thick not work???
Need a bit more info:

What type of environment is this? oily floor?

How did they remove epoxy and grind down 1/4"? seems like some serious floor prep so I doubt it was poor prep.

What type of moisture barrier was it? 3/8" thick does not seem right? Or did they also poor the concrete and perhaps did the barrier before the concrete?

Bubble would occur right away if a system failed, not 6 months down the road.

As far as the brownish stuff, maybe its moisture mixed with oils from the slab?

Did they do a moisture test or RH test?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Were having a meeting tomorrow with the contractors so we shall see. Oh and Jerry, get a job!!!
 

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This is why you don't fuck around with "coatings" as mentioned in the other thread last week.

What part of the country are you in? some slabs stay "damp" 365 days a year.
 

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Even if moisture is an issue there are moisture tolerant primers that will actually seal the surface and protect the coating. If moisture is suspect it is actually good, when possible, to prime it-let it gas off-second caot of primer-allow for recoat time-apply final poduct. I agree with whomever said they didn't like epoxies. Uretahnes, novalacs and vinyl esters are best on floors and 100% solids are generally the way to go.

As for prep, if your going to coat over bare concrete a shot blaster beats grinding anyday. Shot blast, blow clean and prime-you can't get a better prep than that.

We do floors for foot traffic, fork lift traffic, chemical containments and whatever else people do on concrete. We even line manholes, wet wells, clarifiers, ariation basins etc, so you can definately coat almost any concrete surface and make it last.
 

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Even if moisture is an issue there are moisture tolerant primers that will actually seal the surface and protect the coating. If moisture is suspect it is actually good, when possible, to prime it-let it gas off-second caot of primer-allow for recoat time-apply final poduct. I agree with whomever said they didn't like epoxies. Uretahnes, novalacs and vinyl esters are best on floors and 100% solids are generally the way to go.

As for prep, if your going to coat over bare concrete a shot blaster beats grinding anyday. Shot blast, blow clean and prime-you can't get a better prep than that.

We do floors for foot traffic, fork lift traffic, chemical containments and whatever else people do on concrete. We even line manholes, wet wells, clarifiers, ariation basins etc, so you can definately coat almost any concrete surface and make it last.
Seeing how you also do this for living, I'm curious as to why you would say you prefer urethanes, vinyl ester and novalacs ( which is an epoxy, right? ).

I also do work in all of the same area's as you have pointed out. I always enjoy hearing educated talk in sitautions like this. Always looking to learn new things.

The coatings on industrial floors are not going to last. However if you pay decent money a coating that has some thickness to it it will last longer than the $60 gal stuff that everyone is complaining about. However, its still just a coating.

We shotblast everything with the Blastrac machine and dust collector. The hand held or walk behind diamond grinder also work great for me. Any type of mechanical prep will greatly improve the life of your floor and it should be mandatory! I laugh when I see a spec that calls for acid etch, who still does this??

As far as moisture, its a tricky thing. You get different readings throughout the year. Also, you have to make sure its done correctly. Some people think a moisture test is taping down a piece of plastic sheet and waiting to see moisture. I have seen people actually performed a mositure test without preping the floor first. I like the RH probes but even those are tricky at times.

Another thing is these (topical) moisture barriers are only good if you do the whole floor. The moisture will work its way to any area that does not have the barrier and if its got a floor system on it odds are its going to disbond.

I like 3/16" - 1/4" trowled mortar systems that the top coat is either a broadcast system or a coating. The mortar systems can generally withstand around 6lbs of moisture in the slab. This helps by not only offering a better floor but also a little insurance that if there is a little moisture the system can mitigate it.

As always, there is a product for every type of envirorment and the saying you get what you pay for speaks volumes in this industry.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Seeing how you also do this for living, I'm curious as to why you would say you prefer urethanes, vinyl ester and novalacs ( which is an epoxy, right? ).

I also do work in all of the same area's as you have pointed out. I always enjoy hearing educated talk in sitautions like this. Always looking to learn new things.

The coatings on industrial floors are not going to last. However if you pay decent money a coating that has some thickness to it it will last longer than the $60 gal stuff that everyone is complaining about. However, its still just a coating.

We shotblast everything with the Blastrac machine and dust collector. The hand held or walk behind diamond grinder also work great for me. Any type of mechanical prep will greatly improve the life of your floor and it should be mandatory! I laugh when I see a spec that calls for acid etch, who still does this??

As far as moisture, its a tricky thing. You get different readings throughout the year. Also, you have to make sure its done correctly. Some people think a moisture test is taping down a piece of plastic sheet and waiting to see moisture. I have seen people actually performed a mositure test without preping the floor first. I like the RH probes but even those are tricky at times.

Another thing is these (topical) moisture barriers are only good if you do the whole floor. The moisture will work its way to any area that does not have the barrier and if its got a floor system on it odds are its going to disbond.

I like 3/16" - 1/4" trowled mortar systems that the top coat is either a broadcast system or a coating. The mortar systems can generally withstand around 6lbs of moisture in the slab. This helps by not only offering a better floor but also a little insurance that if there is a little moisture the system can mitigate it.

As always, there is a product for every type of envirorment and the saying you get what you pay for speaks volumes in this industry.
Well we spent around $420K to do the whole job including moving equipment and protection for the rest of the areas.
 

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I have done many epoxy floors for car dealerships and prisons, We still acid wash, we also degrease, and more important let surfaces dry, We use Fans and heaters, I have never had the problem your having, What product line are you using.
 

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Well we spent around $420K to do the whole job including moving equipment and protection for the rest of the areas.
So how did you make out today at the meeting? Thats alot of money, always hate to hear stories like this. Sounds like it was a major project, hopefully they can take care of you on it.
 

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I had an issue with my floor when I first applied epoxy. I did everything that I was told including waiting a few months after the concrete was put down for it to cure, I had a thicker moisture barrier put down under the concrete, I did a moisture test (4'x4' plastic taped to the floor) that showed no moisture, and I then prepped the hell out of floor. About 3 weeks after laying down the epoxy, I started getting bubbles. I used Rustoleum and they
guarantee the product so I called them. They had me send a sample chip in of one of the bubbles to test it. Came back it was moisture caused! They gave me the option of refunding my money or replacing the product. I decided I would try it once more so I took the replacement product. By this time it was winter so I had to wait till spring to re apply it. Spring came, I sanded the entire surface w/ 60 grit for "bite", cleaned the floor throughly and reapplied the epoxy. No bubbles this time at all. It has been down 3 years now and I still have no issues. The only conclusion I came up with is that the concrete must have not been completely cured (even though I waited 3 months after the pour) ....
 
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