Yellow Bullet Forums banner

1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
223 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I switched my motor over to e85 last year and plan to continue to run e85 this year. During to winter I rebuilt the motor and am looking for advise as far as breaking in the rings. Should I break in the motor on pump gas or e85. I have had some ring breakin problems in other motors in the past and don't want to go through ring breaking problems.

Will e85 tend to wash out the cylinder walls easier than pump gas? I wouldn't mind doing the break in with e85 as my e85 tune has been fairly on before I pulled the motor to freshed it up. I could put in smaller injectors and do it with pump gas if needed.

Any thoughts?

John
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
49,435 Posts
The biggest secret to ring break in is putting a load on them and getting them seat in the first 10-20 minutes of engine run in. Once outside that window it is a real chore.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
223 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Thanks! I understand the early load to seat the rings. I am at the crossraods of starting the motor with a current clean tune on e85 or having to play around some setting up (or retuning a pump gas tune. If i don't hit the pump gas tune correctly it may take some time to to correct it. I run the chance of running rich for a while on startup which could screw up those first 10-20 minutes on the rings.

I am hoping someone with e85 experience can advise me on any downside of starting the motor for the first time with e85. My initial thinking is that e85 being 85% alcohol may have a tendency to wash the cylinder walls easier than pump gas and causing a problem. I know my e85 tune will not be rich, whereas setting up a pump gas tune may run rich from the start while I tune down the bigger injectors to run on pump gas.

FWIW, I do run the FAST fxi box for tuning.

Any other thoughs out there on this?

John
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
756 Posts
i ran my motors with e85 from the getgo.
you may find a little e85 in the oil but no where near meth alky.
rings shouldent know any difference. u running normal tension oil rings with boost or a vacume pump and low tension?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
223 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
i ran my motors with e85 from the getgo.
you may find a little e85 in the oil but no where near meth alky.
rings shouldent know any difference. u running normal tension oil rings with boost or a vacume pump and low tension?

I am running Total Seal AP Gapless top, napier second and standard tension oil. No vac pump. I am still using oil at 350 miles. More on the pasenger side than the drivers side. I am keeping the tune on the leaner side except it has a tentency to run slightly richer than I like at idle.

Hopeing that it will clean up soon. I had a motor a couple of years ago the never seated and after 1,200 miles I pulled it.

John
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
922 Posts
I fine that if I use a little bit of redline synthetic 2-stroke oil like one container for 55 gal(20 oz) that it makes things much better
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
644 Posts
Out of curiosity, when you rebuilt it, did you hone it by hand at home or have it done at the machine shop? It's been my experience that the AP steel rings need a better finish than the old stone hone from the parts store can give in order to seat.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
223 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Out of curiosity, when you rebuilt it, did you hone it by hand at home or have it done at the machine shop? It's been my experience that the AP steel rings need a better finish than the old stone hone from the parts store can give in order to seat.

All my block work is done at a high end reputable shop. We had trouble with these AP rings before on one of my other builds so we conferenced called Total Seal on this one to confirm exactly the way they preferred the walls and used their recomended stone.

I am using Brad Penn break-in oil with little results on getting the rings to seat. Thinking of switching to a lighter weight Gibbs break in oil out of desperation.

John
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
223 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Bringing up a repeat problem. last year I had problems in breaking in a set of AP stainless gapless rings. Read threads above...

After 700 plus miles I still have oil residue on the plugs and oily cylinders. I pulled the motor today for the third time because of this non seating issue. The machine shop has worked with Total Seal the last 2 times to confirm that the procedures were correct.

I am looking for a different ring package this time around as the oily cylinders as recently cause some pre-ingition and I ate a couple of straps which of course scratched the cylinders walls. Now I get to buy some larger pistons. I just paid big dollars for a set of custom Diamonds whch are now useless...grr

I am running:
Bowtie V6 Block with 4.160 Bore/3:48 stroke (Similar setup as a 383 V8?)
9.5:1 CR
18* Bowtie heads (56cc Chambers).
Twin 62/65 PTE turbos
Solid roller, 234/228 duration cam with 115 LS
E85 fuel

Cranking compression seems high at 165 Lbs, which could be cam related. I get about 16-18 inches of vacuum at idle which may be a cause to suck some oil by the rings? Cranking compression was originally 20 inches or more until we retarded the cam 4*.

Looking for some help here.

John
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,623 Posts
E-85 is pump gas , and almost all pump gas has some ethanol in it , so you don't have much choice there . Washing of cylinder walls is a product of fuel volume more than type of fuel . Ethanol and methanol engines use higher volumes of fuel , so tend to muddy up the oil a bit . But it depends on how much fuel you're putting into the cylinders vs how much of it you're burning at break-in RPM .
The Brad Penn Break in oil is about as good as it gets for alcohol motor break in . I'd stick with it , monitor the oil during break in , and change it as soon as possible .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
223 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Thanks for the reply. I have been running on the lean side as far as afr goes. 9.6-10.2 on the e-85 scale.

I have been using Total Seal Ap Stainless Steel Gapless rings. This is the second set that didn't take a seat.

Anyone have a good a recommendation for turbo rings?

John
 
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Top